Build a Balanced AMD-Based Gaming system for less than $500

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Build a Balanced AMD-Based Gaming system for less than $500

Postby mhudon » Fri Jun 06, 2014 11:24 am

Hi guys,

I wanted to share a short but very nice article written by Igor Wallossek on Tom's Hardware website. Here's how it starts:

"We’re revisiting an age-old question with a modern twist: can you build a balanced gaming PC with a sub-$100 CPU and not be limited by graphics performance? When you pick the right parts, a capable machine is easily within reach for very little money."

If you're interested:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/build-your-own-budget-amd-pc,3807.html
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Re: Build a Balanced AMD-Based Gaming system for less than $500

Postby Hammer_Time » Fri Jun 06, 2014 10:24 pm

Yes, it is extremely important that one buys a "well balanced" computer!! :scout:

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Seriously that is a fairly decent gaming build for under $500 , notice it lacks any optical drive ( burner ) but one might not need to invest the $20 or so in a burner if installing the OS from a thumb drive or over a network etc ( share the other computer's optical drive with OS disc in it over the lan nw to install ). So one does not necessarily "need" to bother buying an optical drive these days if one will never use it ( download everything etc. ). Just pointing out that the more expensive system that is listed in that article does have a burner in it, but not the budget gaming system under $500 - no big deal, just saying... other than that the ~500 gaming system is pretty decent overall considering the low price... the more expensive system they list is even better for gaming of course if budget allows for it. Still happy with my 7870 card here that I paid $200 Cdn for... :D
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Re: Build a Balanced AMD-Based Gaming system for less than $500

Postby DIREWOLF75 » Sat Jun 07, 2014 7:38 am

Heh, to ME that build is UNbalanced. :D

For a cheapskate gaming rig, i would go with the AMD A10 instead, the integrated gfx is decent enough to play most stuff as long as you don´t require it to run high settings.

And for a balanced system, i´d pick a much better cpu and cut down on the gfx, probably to 250X or 260. Those both have better performance than my current 6770 and it´s enough to play both what i like and the majority of stuff others run as well.

For example, if you´re running a lot of the recent Blizzard games? Then that AMD 750K is going to drag you down, and there´s a lot less settings that affect cpu performance than there are that affects gfx.

Also, upgrading a gfx card is relatively easy, upgrading a cpu nowadays, not so much ( as it usually means you need another motherboard ).


So, it´s a decent lowend rig for hardcore FPS gamers, but as an overall gaming rig i give it a "minimal fail" rating.
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Re: Build a Balanced AMD-Based Gaming system for less than $500

Postby clone » Sat Jun 07, 2014 10:14 am

For a cheapskate gaming rig, i would go with the AMD A10 instead, the integrated gfx is decent enough to play most stuff as long as you don´t require it to run high settings.

And for a balanced system, i´d pick a much better cpu and cut down on the gfx, probably to 250X or 260. Those both have better performance than my current 6770 and it´s enough to play both what i like and the majority of stuff others run as well.

For example, if you´re running a lot of the recent Blizzard games? Then that AMD 750K is going to drag you down, and there´s a lot less settings that affect cpu performance than there are that affects gfx.

Also, upgrading a gfx card is relatively easy, upgrading a cpu nowadays, not so much ( as it usually means you need another motherboard ).


So, it´s a decent lowend rig for hardcore FPS gamers, but as an overall gaming rig i give it a "minimal fail" rating.
integrated graphics are still garbage, they'll remind you they are garbage every time you use them ...... sure you can play games with them but they'll always dictate how & what you can play.

2nd part, given the mentioned budget was $500 and the basic system was $415 their is room for a better cpu..... I'm not sure it's needed but bumping the price up $40 on CPU and $30 on mobo would put an FX 6300 in.

a comparison of a 750k vs a core i5.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIT9uLDjZcg

3rd I'd dump the 1tb hdd personally and get an SSD in it's place a smaller one using external drives for storage in the Tb's place to be purchased when required.
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Re: Build a Balanced AMD-Based Gaming system for less than $500

Postby Hammer_Time » Sat Jun 07, 2014 10:15 am

Not true Dire, any Discrete R7 250 card is faster than the gpu in the A10 7850K apu. There are 2 versions of R7 250 cards, one with cheaper DDR 3 memory which basically matches the overall performance of the gpu ( well igp to be precise ) in the 7850K apu, and a faster DDR 5 memory version which is noticeably faster than the performance of the 7850K igp. Proof:

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/di ... html#sect0

Battlefield 4 is a highly popular multiplayer shooter with rather high system requirements. The A10-7850K’s integrated graphics is quite capable of delivering a playable frame rate at the Full-HD resolution. You can even try to enable medium visual quality settings. The other integrated graphics solutions can’t offer such a high level of performance.

And if the resolution is dropped to 720p, the A10-7850K even allows using high visual quality settings. On the other hand, the A10-7850K is inferior to the discrete Radeon R7 250 cards in this case, irrespective of the type of onboard memory. So the low clock rate also seems to be a problem for the Spectre graphics.


I understand some games are more cpu intensive but overall a discrete R7 250 card paired with any budget cpu is still going to be faster overall than 7850K while costing less too!

The 7850K is a decent budget gaming solution except that it is WAY OVERPRICED!! Proof:

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.as ... -_-Product

AMD A10-7850K Kaveri 3.7GHz Socket FM2+ 95W Desktop Processor AMD Radeon R7 series AD785KXBJABOX

$188.99


As compared to this:

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.as ... -_-Product

AMD Athlon X4 750K Trinity 3.4GHz Socket FM2 100W Desktop Processor - Black Edition AD750KWOHJBOX

$78.99


http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.as ... -_-Product

SAPPHIRE 100368L Radeon R7 250 1GB 128-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 CrossFireX Support Video Card

Radeon R7 250
Core Clock
1000MHz
Boost Clock
1050MHz
Stream Processors
384 Stream Processors


Memory
Effective Memory Clock
4600MHz

Memory Size
1GB
Memory Interface
128-bit
Memory Type
GDDR5

$94.99


So, $79 + $95 = $174 total, that is $15 cheaper than the 7850K cpu and faster overall in gaming too! Not much savings but still, we are talking pinching pennies here for best bang for the buck...

You could even step up the R7 250 card to a 260 card for only $35 more:

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.as ... -_-Product

MSI R7 260 1GD5 OC 1GB 128-Bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card

$129.99


So $79 + $130 = $209 total, and that would SMOKE the gaming performance of the 7850K while only costing $20 more than that apu... :scout: :D

Of course any future games supporting AMD's Mantle API will run better on any of these lower-end budget cpu's which is what Mantle was designed for in the first place. Cheers!
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Re: Build a Balanced AMD-Based Gaming system for less than $500

Postby Hammer_Time » Sat Jun 07, 2014 10:16 am

clone wrote:
For a cheapskate gaming rig, i would go with the AMD A10 instead, the integrated gfx is decent enough to play most stuff as long as you don´t require it to run high settings.

And for a balanced system, i´d pick a much better cpu and cut down on the gfx, probably to 250X or 260. Those both have better performance than my current 6770 and it´s enough to play both what i like and the majority of stuff others run as well.

For example, if you´re running a lot of the recent Blizzard games? Then that AMD 750K is going to drag you down, and there´s a lot less settings that affect cpu performance than there are that affects gfx.

Also, upgrading a gfx card is relatively easy, upgrading a cpu nowadays, not so much ( as it usually means you need another motherboard ).


So, it´s a decent lowend rig for hardcore FPS gamers, but as an overall gaming rig i give it a "minimal fail" rating.
integrated graphics are still garbage, they'll remind you they are garbage every time you use them ...... sure you can play games with them but they'll always dictate how & what you can play.

2nd part, given the mentioned budget was $500 and the basic system was $415 their is room for a better cpu..... I'm not sure it's needed but bumping the price up $40 on CPU and $30 on mobo would put an FX 6300 in.

3rd I'd dump the 1tb hdd personally and get an SSD in it's place a smaller one using external drives for storage in the Tb's place to be purchased when required.


Yes, that is true... you slipped this post in whilst I was typing up my long-winded response to Dire here! :mrgreen:
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Re: Build a Balanced AMD-Based Gaming system for less than $500

Postby DIREWOLF75 » Sat Jun 07, 2014 5:53 pm

Not true Dire, any Discrete R7 250 card is faster than the gpu in the A10 7850K apu.


And where exactly did i say that it wasn´t?
I didn´t actually say ANYTHING about this or that being faster than something else.

I understand some games are more cpu intensive but overall a discrete R7 250 card paired with any budget cpu is still going to be faster overall than 7850K while costing less too!


While costing LESS? Using quick and dirty price conversions, a decent R7 250 is about $70-100 and the cpu in the example is $80.
Pricetag for an A10, about $120-130. Eh, from where i´m looking, thats about 30% HIGHER total price.
And on a cheap motherboard, it´s not guaranteed that you will get full performance from a discrete gfx card either. So, the integrated becomes a cheap "foolproof" option.

The 7850K is a decent budget gaming solution except that it is WAY OVERPRICED!!


I wasn´t talking about THAT specific cpu obviously, because yes, it IS overpriced. I don´t even have a local price to compare with... Hmm, on prisjakt.nu the price on it is actually just under 1200, in USD, realistically that should work out somewhere between 120 and 160. About 130-140 if i convert roughly the same way i used for other parts above.

So that still gives a ~$30 savings.

The 7700K even at Newegg is much more reasonable at 169.
Still, with lower end gfx, stepping down to the 6xxx series is reasonable, at which point newegg allows you to go down to 138$.

The one i compared with locally here was the A10 6800K. Which is currently the single most sold cpu at the local store.

So $79 + $130 = $209 total, and that would SMOKE the gaming performance of the 7850K while only costing $20 more than that apu...


Not quite that much, but of course it would have better performance, but at that point we are doing one more step of "just a little better, it´s only xxx$ more" and we´re no longer looking at a really lowbudget machine.
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Re: Build a Balanced AMD-Based Gaming system for less than $500

Postby DIREWOLF75 » Sat Jun 07, 2014 6:22 pm

integrated graphics are still garbage, they'll remind you they are garbage every time you use them ......


Not since AMD brought their 3xxx series and later into chipsets and APUs.
They are becoming more and more popular because now they´re good enough for lowend FPS gaming while allowing a budget that lets almost anyone squeeze one in(or squeeze an extra in for spouse or child etc).

For a family it looks to become a norm to have one more or less high performance system, a portable/laptop or two and then 1 or more of these cheap allrounders.

a comparison of a 750k vs a core i5.


Funny thing about that video is he is wearing a shirt with a SC2 marking, and if you test those cpus there, the AMD is horribly shredded and left dead and burning.

Yes i´m exaggerating, but it IS one of the places where an i5 shines brightly above anything from AMD.

3rd I'd dump the 1tb hdd personally and get an SSD in it's place a smaller one using external drives for storage in the Tb's place to be purchased when required.


And if the buyer has 10 modern games, it may already be impossible to install all of them. Seriously, Shogun 2 and SC2 alone for me takes up over 35GB together. Few games uses less than a GB. An SSD just wont give you enough GB on its own to start with.
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Re: Build a Balanced AMD-Based Gaming system for less than $500

Postby clone » Sat Jun 07, 2014 10:03 pm

Not since AMD brought their 3xxx series and later into chipsets and APUs.
They are becoming more and more popular because now they´re good enough for lowend FPS gaming while allowing a budget that lets almost anyone squeeze one in(or squeeze an extra in for spouse or child etc).

For a family it looks to become a norm to have one more or less high performance system, a portable/laptop or two and then 1 or more of these cheap allrounders.
while I personally, as an enthusiast, am impressed with the new gen integrated offerings. The truth is family's aren't buying budget "gaming desktops". They buy consoles, and most recently, they are either toying with their phones or buying tablets.

AMD's sales are proving this.

AMD may be selling a lot of integrated gfx systems but that's mainly because they are cheap and I'd be surprised if they are seeing much gaming outside of MS chess. An outside influence to teach budget consumers that "hey you can also game in limited fashion" is the only way those systems will ever get used as such.
Funny thing about that video is he is wearing a shirt with a SC2 marking, and if you test those cpus there, the AMD is horribly shredded and left dead and burning.

Yes i´m exaggerating, but it IS one of the places where an i5 shines brightly above anything from AMD.
true, but you & I both know the "blizzard" results are anomalous.
And if the buyer has 10 modern games, it may already be impossible to install all of them. Seriously, Shogun 2 and SC2 alone for me takes up over 35GB together. Few games uses less than a GB. An SSD just wont give you enough GB on its own to start with.
sure but you listed 2 games.....does anyone play 10 games at the same time?
Given the wonderfulness of an SSD vs a conventional drive spending another $60 to double it's size would be the better route to go.
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Re: Build a Balanced AMD-Based Gaming system for less than $500

Postby DIREWOLF75 » Sun Jun 08, 2014 11:47 am

while AMD may be selling a lot of integrated gfx systems it's because they are cheap


Well of course. Though convenience is also a factor. One less part in the system to be troubled with.

and I'd be surprised if they are seeing much gaming outside of MS chess....


Be surprised then. Those i know run just about any game on them except the very latest highend stuff.

does anyone play 10 games at the same time?

Most people tend to have a lot more games than that INSTALLED yes.

Personally, on a quick count i believe i have something like 600GB of games installed.

Based on what i KNOW my minimalist friend has installed, he should have at least around 150-200GB worth of games. SC2 is the only game he has on his SSD, and he already ran into trouble there, being forced to move some stuff to another drive because the SSD ran out of space and slowed down SC2 and even crashed it.

My local cousin should have at least 250GB of games installed that i know of, he´s not a budget gamer, but he still runs the E8200 system he bought a year or so before i got this system.
Local friend probably has more than 400GB of games on her system(and she IS exactly a budget gamer(mostly FPS games)).


I would VERY much like my next system to have an SSD as the boot drive, but i´m still not quite sure if i can squeeze it into the budget, as i´m fairly intent on going with lots of RAM on it.
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Re: Build a Balanced AMD-Based Gaming system for less than $500

Postby mhudon » Tue Jun 10, 2014 4:44 am

clone wrote:2nd part, given the mentioned budget was $500 and the basic system was $415 their is room for a better cpu..... I'm not sure it's needed but bumping the price up $40 on CPU and $30 on mobo would put an FX 6300 in.

a comparison of a 750k vs a core i5.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIT9uLDjZcg

3rd I'd dump the 1tb hdd personally and get an SSD in it's place a smaller one using external drives for storage in the Tb's place to be purchased when required.


Totally agree that an FX-6300 is well worth the investment. Both the FX-6300 & 6350 rigs shows solid gaming and video editing performance.

If the main purpose is gaming and gaming only, I would also recommend a small SSD. You can buy Crucial MX100 256gb SSDs for around $110 today and the "no loading" gaming experience easily justifies the cost.
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Re: Build a Balanced AMD-Based Gaming system for less than $500

Postby Sauron_Daz » Tue Jun 10, 2014 10:08 pm

mhudon wrote:
clone wrote: You can buy Crucial MX100 256gb SSDs for around $110 today


Now that is interesting..
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Re: Build a Balanced AMD-Based Gaming system for less than $500

Postby mhudon » Wed Jun 11, 2014 5:38 am

Indeed: http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148820

I've got a Crucial M500 SSD running in one of the computers at home and it's doing very well.
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Re: Build a Balanced AMD-Based Gaming system for less than $500

Postby Sauron_Daz » Thu Jun 12, 2014 3:07 am

Its € 89,90 here. :cool:
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Re: Build a Balanced AMD-Based Gaming system for less than $500

Postby DIREWOLF75 » Thu Jun 12, 2014 4:28 am

Sauron_Daz wrote:Its € 89,90 here. :cool:


Which is more than $110. :(
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Re: Build a Balanced AMD-Based Gaming system for less than $500

Postby Sauron_Daz » Thu Jun 12, 2014 11:52 pm

At least its not €110 like many components: usually the price is the same but the $ got repaced with a €.
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Re: Build a Balanced AMD-Based Gaming system for less than $500

Postby clone » Fri Jun 13, 2014 10:19 am

Most people tend to have a lot more games than that INSTALLED yes.
most users will build up a mountain of junk on their system if the hard drive is big enough to allow for it, data gets used and forgotten, games that no longer get played sit idle, years go by and it just sits on the system, games, pictures, videos, & music.

smaller SSD ='s backing up what matters & deleting the trash before it becomes a problem sooner.

those ppl that have 10 games on their system aren't playing them.... they may be playing 1, 2 maybe even 3 but actively... naahh and I'd wager no more than 3 would be classified as "I need these on my system at the same time" vs "they are their because I didn't delete them yet."

my point is that a large hdd isn't as important as ..... say.... a 250gb SSD for snappy system running given the options available today.
Be surprised then. Those i know run just about any game on them except the very latest highend stuff.
I'm not buying this and suspect thr "those that I know" are notably few in number.

Of the 20 I know that game, few bought let alone considered buying the latest AMD, AMD's reputation has been in the toilet since the release of Bulldozer. Those that still use AMD for the most part are sticking with what they have.

of the 4 ppl I know who chose AMD, none chose Fusion cpu's. One bought an FX 9390, one bought my FX 8320, I've got an FX 6300 I replaced my FX 8320 with and another bought an FX 6300 only because I recommended it after considering cost at the time.

naturally everyone is using add in discrete and only Grandma and Grandpa along with laptop owners are "gaming" on integrated.

it's not just that very few care at all about AMD but that fewer still care about integrated which is why AMD is focusing on ARM as a new revenue stream after having dropped to 4th place in the processor business behind Qualcomm and Samsung who's mobile growth has eclipsed them.
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Re: Build a Balanced AMD-Based Gaming system for less than $500

Postby Hammer_Time » Fri Jun 13, 2014 9:00 pm

Sadly Clone is very right here...
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Re: Build a Balanced AMD-Based Gaming system for less than $500

Postby DIREWOLF75 » Sat Jun 14, 2014 4:48 am

Hammer_Time wrote:Sadly Clone is very right here...


No he isn´t. He´s unable to understand that anyone could think differently than himself. :roll:


Of the 20 I know that game, few bought let alone considered buying the latest AMD, AMD's reputation has been in the toilet since the release of Bulldozer. Those that still use AMD for the most part are sticking with what they have.


Completely irrelevant. These are the people who MIGHT be aware that Intel makes cpu:s and who thinks the case is either the HDD or the cpu.
They ask for a vague "i want something that can do this and that while not costing more than X" at the store and they try to give it to them.

naturally everyone is using add in discrete and only Grandma and Grandpa along with laptop owners are "gaming" on integrated.


:roll:

Reality check dude. You´re so far from the truth that you´re getting intergalactic bonus airmiles. Assumptions based on your own opinions are worth nothing.

it's not just that very few care at all about AMD but that fewer still care about integrated which is why AMD


Has zero to do with "caring" about anything.

those ppl that have 10 games on their system aren't playing them.... they may be playing 1, 2 maybe even 3 but actively... naahh and I'd wager no more than 3 would be classified as "I need these on my system at the same time" vs "they are their because I didn't delete them yet."


One more assumption based on your own opinion only.

SOME geeks and hardcore gamers are the ones playing 1 or 2 games intensively for a short while and then MAYBE uninstalling it(or MAYBE getting back to it for fun a few weeks or months later).
NORMAL people tend to switch around more even if they have one specific preferred game.
Normal people do not buy a system to get X fps in a specific game, ever.

->=<
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Re: Build a Balanced AMD-Based Gaming system for less than $500

Postby clone » Sat Jun 14, 2014 6:58 am

No he isn´t. He´s unable to understand that anyone could think differently than himself.
Hammer Time's agreement disproves your silly.... and it was there long before you chose to make your empty headed post.
Completely irrelevant. These are the people who MIGHT be aware that Intel makes cpu:s and who thinks the case is either the HDD or the cpu.
They ask for a vague "i want something that can do this and that while not costing more than X" at the store and they try to give it to them.
everyone is aware of Intel, few know AMD, you are somewhat correct in that ppl ask questions and salesman push them in certain directions....... congrats on that nugget.

Having sold a thousand PC's over the course of 15 years I know ppl like to ask for a lot of things, I'd let everything slide until they came to gaming or potential storage issues, then I sell them add in discrete or push for more space or both.... it's called upselling and while it didn't work every time Direwolf, it worked 90% of the time.lol.
Reality check dude.
NORMAL people tend to switch around more even if they have one specific preferred game.
'Reality check".... "normal"...... lol.

Direwolf don't discuss "normal" as if you are in a position to judge what is and isn't normal...... especially in a discussion about the high end gaming habits of integrated equipped computer gamers. A subset of a subset, of a subset of a subset, of the "gaming community" if ever their was one.

I'm still impressed given the comments you make and the arguments you choose to fight that you've chosen to claim you are hyper intelligent to anyone.
Normal people do not buy a system to get X fps in a specific game, ever.
look above "hyper intelligent" one, and notice your singular focus on SCII numbers when discussing integrated. "if you´re running a lot of the recent Blizzard games?"

Direwolf, you make it so easy, why do you always make it so easy?

I'm not the one who discussed specifics, I'm the one saying integrated overall blows chunks..... because it does. Can you game with integrated? sure. Is it great? no. Of the few who choose integrated for gaming, will they eventually buy add in discrete? Yes.
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