Why the Keystone XL pipeline is BAD for everyone but big oil

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Why the Keystone XL pipeline is BAD for everyone but big oil

Postby Hammer_Time » Tue Feb 04, 2014 11:25 am

With Keystone XL getting closer to approval by Obama now, here are the facts on what it will really do:

http://www.desmogblog.com/reality-check ... rity-claim

http://www.internationalviewpoint.org/s ... rticle2300

http://priceofoil.org/content/uploads/2 ... _2011R.pdf

I posted about this back in 2011 when those articles came out, but somehow they were magically "deleted" from our forums... so here they are again! :twisted:

The only ones that will "benefit" from Keystone XL are the rich oil company CEO's who will sell this oil to China and other foreign markets tax-free!! See .PDF link above for proof... a few thousand temporary jobs will of course be created during construction, and a few hundred maintenance jobs afterwards... and the pipeline will leak, like all pipelines eventually leak... wonderful... we need to get off our dependence on oil and fossil fuels, not increase it globally!! :fist: :x
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Re: Why the Keystone XL pipeline is BAD for everyone but big oil

Postby Hammer_Time » Wed Feb 05, 2014 1:10 am

http://www.democracynow.org/2014/2/4/headlines#241

Rallies Held Nationwide to Protest Keystone XL Oil Pipeline After State Dept. Report

Across the United States on Monday protesters took to the streets for hundreds of rallies urging President Obama to reject the Keystone XL oil pipeline. The actions in at least 44 states followed a State Department report claiming the pipeline’s northern leg would have a minimal impact on climate change. Environmentalists disagree, saying plans to pipe 830,000 barrels of oil per day from Alberta’s tar sands to the U.S. Gulf Coast would accelerate global warming and threaten communities along the pipeline’s route. Here in New York City, scores of people rallied in Union Square, including environmentalist Bill McKibben of 350.org.

Bill McKibben: "This issue has already brought more Americans into the streets than any environmental issue in decades, and now, finally, we’re at the point of decision. It’s out of the hands of the bought-off bureaucrats who have been delaying it in the State Department for years and doing the bidding of the fossil fuel industry. Now we’re going to find out whether John Kerry and Barack Obama are similarly captives of the oil industry or whether they’re willing to really stand up when it counts for the commitments they’ve made about climate change."


Report: Cancer-Causing Pollutants from Alberta’s Oil Sands Vastly Underestimated

The protests against the Keystone XL oil pipeline came as a new study revealed emissions of toxic pollutants from the Alberta tar sands have been vastly underestimated. Researchers at the University of Toronto Scarborough say actual levels of pollutants known as polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons are far higher than estimates accepted by the Canadian government. The pollutants have been tied to a higher risk of asthma as well as cancer
.


... and they will find out that Obama is completely bought off by the lobbyists and big oil, just like he caved in to surging over 30,000 troops to Afghanistan a year after he took office, when his election promise was to "end the wars in the EDIT: Afghanistan and Iraq :END EDIT" and they prematurely gave him the Nobel Peace Prize for it.

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Re: Why the Keystone XL pipeline is BAD for everyone but big oil

Postby Sauron_Daz » Wed Feb 05, 2014 5:50 am

Hammer_Time wrote: we need to get off our dependence on oil and fossil fuels, not increase it globally!! :fist: :x


Any idea on how to accomplish that?
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Re: Why the Keystone XL pipeline is BAD for everyone but big oil

Postby Hammer_Time » Wed Feb 05, 2014 6:02 am

Sauron_Daz wrote:
Hammer_Time wrote: we need to get off our dependence on oil and fossil fuels, not increase it globally!! :fist: :x


Any idea on how to accomplish that?


Just the usual rant about solar/wind/hydroelectric/ ( where possible of course )/biofuels , not to completely replace oil/gas and the plastics derived from oil, but to cut down our dependence on oil.

Some weird alternatives:

http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/al ... 09#slide-1
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Re: Why the Keystone XL pipeline is BAD for everyone but big oil

Postby Sauron_Daz » Wed Feb 05, 2014 6:16 am

Problem with oil derived fuels is that they carry so much energy per liter (or gallon). That energy-density is required for a real alternative which makes it very difficult..
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Re: Why the Keystone XL pipeline is BAD for everyone but big oil

Postby DIREWOLF75 » Wed Feb 05, 2014 6:44 am

Sauron_Daz wrote:Problem with oil derived fuels is that they carry so much energy per liter (or gallon). That energy-density is required for a real alternative which makes it very difficult..

Indeed, i read somewhere that a single liter of petrol had more energy in it than a what a human would use in 2 weeks.

That´s a rather daunting perspective.
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Re: Why the Keystone XL pipeline is BAD for everyone but big oil

Postby Sauron_Daz » Thu Feb 06, 2014 2:21 am

Hammer_Time wrote:http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/21/us/22-veteran-suicides-a-day/

:shock:
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Re: Why the Keystone XL pipeline is BAD for everyone but big oil

Postby clone » Tue Feb 11, 2014 11:23 am

on a side note I have a question regarding the XL pipeline.

why doesn't Canada just build a few refineries in Alberta instead of running a god damned pipe from Alberta to Texas?

then instead of selling oil for pennies on the dollar and buying it back for 3X's the price Canada could sell refined fuels for a substancial profit while also pushing prices down via competition.
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Re: Why the Keystone XL pipeline is BAD for everyone but big oil

Postby Hammer_Time » Tue Feb 11, 2014 12:11 pm

They are also trying to run pipelines to West and East coasts here in Canada ( using existing 40 year old Line 9 through Ontario near our Great Lakes with volumes the pipeline was never designed for! ) , this will be a worse disaster for our country than extending the Keystone XL pipeline from MidWest USA to the Gulf Coast, USA takes "all the risk" of leaks there... but the increased raping of the tarsands in general is not a good thing either if Keystone XL extension gets approved. Don't worry Clone, Harper and Big Oil is doing their very best to ensure we have pipelines going NSWE in every damn direction from the tarsands and to hell with the environment or us "treehuggers"!!! :fist:
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Re: Why the Keystone XL pipeline is BAD for everyone but big oil

Postby clone » Tue Feb 11, 2014 6:37 pm

They are trying to run pipelines to West and East coasts here in Canada ( using existing 40 year old Line 9 through Ontario near our Great Lakes with volumes the pipeline was never designed for! ) , this will be a worse disaster for our country than extending the Keystone XL pipeline from MidWest USA to the Gulf Coast, USA takes "all the risk" of leaks there... but the increased raping of the tarsands in general is not a good thing either if Keystone XL extension gets approved. Don't worry Clone, Harper and Big Oil is doing their very best to ensure we have pipelines going NSWE in every damn direction from the tarsands and
Stephen Harper is the Lucien Bouchard of Alberta.... a wonderful Albertan but not so much a Canadian.

f'ing big oil man..... it's all going to sell, what's all the rush?
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Re: Why the Keystone XL pipeline is BAD for everyone but big oil

Postby Fuzz » Tue Feb 11, 2014 9:13 pm

clone wrote:on a side note I have a question regarding the XL pipeline.

why doesn't Canada just build a few refineries in Alberta instead of running a god damned pipe from Alberta to Texas?

then instead of selling oil for pennies on the dollar and buying it back for 3X's the price Canada could sell refined fuels for a substancial profit while also pushing prices down via competition.


Refineries are ridiculously expensive, and the same oil companies that own the refineries in the US that are under-supplied are the companies that would build them in Canada. It would be fool hardy for them to spend that kind of money when pipelines are much cheaper. The other massive obstacle (and this can't be understated) is the amount of water refineries need. That's why they are typically on the coast. Alberta just doesn't have the water capacity to supply that kind of demand. Ideally I totally agree with you. Unfortunately the economics and water supply issues mean it just isn't likely to happen. We are better to send the oil to the east coast where we have refineries that can deal with it if we want to keep it in Canada for refining. The west coast doesn't have much available land or infrastructure for it.
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Re: Why the Keystone XL pipeline is BAD for everyone but big oil

Postby clone » Tue Feb 11, 2014 11:01 pm

Refineries are ridiculously expensive, and the same oil companies that own the refineries in the US that are under-supplied are the companies that would build them in Canada. It would be fool hardy for them to spend that kind of money when pipelines are much cheaper. The other massive obstacle (and this can't be understated) is the amount of water refineries need. That's why they are typically on the coast. Alberta just doesn't have the water capacity to supply that kind of demand. Ideally I totally agree with you. Unfortunately the economics and water supply issues mean it just isn't likely to happen. We are better to send the oil to the east coast where we have refineries that can deal with it if we want to keep it in Canada for refining. The west coast doesn't have much available land or infrastructure for it.
actually their is a good article talking about the pro's and con's of building more refinery capacity in Canada.

yes a refinery is expensive (up to 10 billion) but with that comes good paying jobs and energy independence, infrastructure and marketable skill sets..... but another refinery isn't what Canada needs, Canada already refines more than it produces and is currently overcapacity by quite a bit leaving them to sell the excess off, the problem is that most of the refinery capacity is in the East Coast while the oil is in the west.

a pipeline to ship it would cost 150 million and seems like a no brainer but sadly........ you are correct Fuzz, the ones buying the unrefined crude own the refineries in Texas so in their view it's a lose, lose, lose.

they'd lose control, they'd face competition and their margins would get squeezed.

in the end I don't care about "them", I care about Canada and what's good for Canadians..... shipping oil via a pipeline is good for them, it's not good for Canada. it'd be expensive for them to do it, not nearly so much for Canada.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/05/23 ... 39701.html
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Re: Why the Keystone XL pipeline is BAD for everyone but big oil

Postby Hammer_Time » Tue Feb 11, 2014 11:55 pm

Good article.

Found some interesting numbers in this article about Canada's Energy Overview, particularly our exports:

https://www.neb-one.gc.ca/clf-nsi/rnrgy ... 2-eng.html

Canadian Energy Overview 2012 - Energy Briefing Note
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Re: Why the Keystone XL pipeline is BAD for everyone but big oil

Postby Hammer_Time » Tue Mar 04, 2014 1:09 pm

http://www.takepart.com/article/2014/02 ... l-pipeline

5 Arguments That Will Convince You the Keystone XL Pipeline Is a Bad Idea

The window is closing on your chance to tell Obama to oppose the controversial pipeline.


February 28, 2014 By Salvatore Cardoni

Sal holds a Political Science degree from the George Washington University. He's written about all things environment since 2007.

Last month, the State Department released its Final Supplemental Environmental Impact Statement on the $7 billion, 875-mile Keystone XL pipeline, the controversial project that would carry up to 830,000 barrels of crude oil per day from Alberta’s tar sand reserves to refineries near Houston.

The report concluded the pipeline would not significantly exacerbate greenhouse gas emissions because Canadian tar sands would get to market regardless of whether the pipeline was built—a claim environmental activists immediately rejected.

The decision to approve the pipeline rests with President Obama, and while there is no deadline for when he must weigh in, there is for you—and the clock is ticking.

A 30-day public comment period will close on March 7. That’s next Friday. So do your planet a solid, and tell your president you don’t want him to light the fuse on the pipeline that NASA climatologist James Hansen has famously called a “carbon bomb.”


http://www.takepart.com/sites/default/f ... 5B1%5D.jpg
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Re: Why the Keystone XL pipeline is BAD for everyone but big oil

Postby Sauron_Daz » Wed Mar 05, 2014 2:44 am

What if Obama doesn't mention the pipeline?
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Re: Why the Keystone XL pipeline is BAD for everyone but big oil

Postby Hammer_Time » Wed Mar 05, 2014 3:22 am

Then it doesn't get built! 8)
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Re: Why the Keystone XL pipeline is BAD for everyone but big oil

Postby Sauron_Daz » Wed Mar 05, 2014 3:56 am

He doesn't have to verbally oppose it then?
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Re: Why the Keystone XL pipeline is BAD for everyone but big oil

Postby Hammer_Time » Wed Mar 05, 2014 4:25 am

Like the article says, Obama has "no deadline" on having to give an answer on Keystone XL project, so as long as he remains mum on the subject, nothing happens, delayed forever, will never be built. He has to announce his "Approval" of the project before it can go forward, something I hope never happens obviously... He does not way to come out and say "No" right now ( that would piss off Harper and Big Oil of course that want to ram this project through ), so he is being "political" here and simply saying nothing for the time being...good!!
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Re: Why the Keystone XL pipeline is BAD for everyone but big oil

Postby Sauron_Daz » Wed Mar 05, 2014 5:59 am

Harper and Big Oil may already be pissed off by his silence.
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Re: Why the Keystone XL pipeline is BAD for everyone but big oil

Postby Hammer_Time » Wed Mar 05, 2014 2:05 pm

Ya think?? Of course they are... GOOD!! 8)
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