Uh oh, here we go again... Religion

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Uh oh, here we go again... Religion

Postby Fuzz » Thu Jul 25, 2013 10:25 am

Couldn't find the old thread....

Wanted: Young Creation Scientists

ICR, together with the rest of the creation science movement, has made great strides in the last 40 years. In many areas, the superiority of the creation worldview has been clearly demonstrated. Even now, ICR is making exciting discoveries in the fields of biology and geology, and we have started new research initiatives in the field of astronomy. However, there is much work that still needs to be done, and this work is hindered by a lack of trained scientists.

Therefore, we appeal to any Bible-believing young person with an interest in science—have you considered cultivating that science interest for the glory of God?


http://www.icr.org/article/7096/

Its crap like this that is why religion is a destructive force into our world. Right then, you want to take young open minded people who show interest in SCIENCE to spend their lives trying to match up whatever junk they can find to a book written thousands of years ago by a bunch of desert wanderers who's world view was no wider than farming, hunting and surviving? Who's scientific knowledge is surpassed by a 2nd grader?

You want to use my tax dollars to have them educated so you can take then for this crap when they could be making real scientific discoveries and advancing the human race? Sorry but no.

As Bill Nye said...

“I say to the grownups, if you want to deny evolution and live in your world, that’s completely inconsistent with the world we observe, that’s fine. But don’t make your kids do it. Because we need them. We need scientifically literate voters and taxpayers for the future. We need engineers that can build stuff and solve problems.”
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Re: Uh oh, here we go again... Religion

Postby Hammer_Time » Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:46 am

I believe that the "old religion thread" you are referring to predates 2007, which is the last time the forums got "purged completely" due to server db corruption. Luckily that has not happened since, but everything posted on these forums prior to 2007 is "gone" forever and I believe it took that "Religion Thread" with it. I too searched for it and could not find it, so this is my guess as to what happened to it.

While I agree with your views on Creationism above, Religion is a deeply personal and highly flammable topic so I won't bother to pour any more gasoline on the fire here so to speak. I am mired enough in our political threads, which again is a very flammable topic but one I enjoy debating. :twisted: :whistle:

Permit me this one though:

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I realize that sometimes the above is reversed, just trying to add some perspective here... :mrgreen:
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Re: Uh oh, here we go again... Religion

Postby Fuzz » Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:51 am

Hey, having discussions about politics and religion can be dangerous business in meatspace. Safer to do it here :)
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Re: Uh oh, here we go again... Religion

Postby Hammer_Time » Thu Jul 25, 2013 12:09 pm

Word!! :lol: You can't shoot or otherwise physically harm me on the internetz... :scout:
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Re: Uh oh, here we go again... Religion

Postby Celt » Thu Jul 25, 2013 12:27 pm

I think I have said before that as a scientist I think those who interpret the poetic description of creation in the bible need to understand the difference between religion (literal thought) and faith (well if God is God then why not).

As a Christian I want to punch them in the face as well.

Religious idiots . . . As Jesus himself preached, “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?", which is why I refer to such rigidly strict creationists as plank-heads. The poem matches the science, so treat it as poetry, not an instruction manual. After all the book of Song of Songs is an erotic poem, but I don't see any Christians treating it literally with their partners!
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Re: Uh oh, here we go again... Religion

Postby Sauron_Daz » Thu Jul 25, 2013 12:40 pm

Fuzz wrote:Hey, having discussions about politics and religion can be dangerous business in meatspace. Safer to do it here :)


Meatspace?
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Re: Uh oh, here we go again... Religion

Postby Sauron_Daz » Thu Jul 25, 2013 12:54 pm

Hammer_Time wrote:Word!! :lol: You can't shoot or otherwise physically harm me on the internetz... :scout:


Wanna bet?
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Re: Uh oh, here we go again... Religion

Postby Hammer_Time » Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:53 pm

Sauron_Daz wrote:
Fuzz wrote:Hey, having discussions about politics and religion can be dangerous business in meatspace. Safer to do it here :)


Meatspace?


"Real Life" or "AFK - Away From Keyboard", as in a face to face confrontation!! :twisted: :incoming: :D
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Re: Uh oh, here we go again... Religion

Postby Hammer_Time » Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:53 pm

Sauron_Daz wrote:
Hammer_Time wrote:Word!! :lol: You can't shoot or otherwise physically harm me on the internetz... :scout:


Wanna bet?


You can use the internetz to order a Drone Strike on me, that would physically harm me, so yes, I suppose you are right!! :P
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Re: Uh oh, here we go again... Religion

Postby Sauron_Daz » Thu Jul 25, 2013 2:16 pm

Hammer_Time wrote:
Sauron_Daz wrote:
Fuzz wrote:Hey, having discussions about politics and religion can be dangerous business in meatspace. Safer to do it here :)


Meatspace?


"Real Life" or "AFK - Away From Keyboard", as in a face to face confrontation!! :twisted: :incoming: :D

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Re: Uh oh, here we go again... Religion

Postby Sauron_Daz » Thu Jul 25, 2013 2:17 pm

Hammer_Time wrote:
Sauron_Daz wrote:
Hammer_Time wrote:Word!! :lol: You can't shoot or otherwise physically harm me on the internetz... :scout:


Wanna bet?


You can use the internetz to order a Drone Strike on me, that would physically harm me, so yes, I suppose you are right!! :P

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Re: Uh oh, here we go again... Religion

Postby Hammer_Time » Thu Jul 25, 2013 3:19 pm

I prefer this "Prism" :wink:

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Re: Uh oh, here we go again... Religion

Postby DIREWOLF75 » Thu Jul 25, 2013 4:15 pm

Hammer_Time wrote:Word!! :lol: You can't shoot or otherwise physically harm me on the internetz... :scout:

That is what you think... :twisted:


:incoming:


:moon:


which is why I refer to such rigidly strict creationists as plank-heads.

Ah, so it isn´t because they have the attentionspan of a Planck-time? Or the brain volume of Planck-mass? :mrgreen:
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Re: Uh oh, here we go again... Religion

Postby Fuzz » Thu Jul 25, 2013 5:14 pm

From the other thread....
Stupify wrote:
Fuzz wrote:Why do you need religion for that? Sounds like another excuse to absolve parents of responsibility and put it on someone else. I've got no problem with a social system or communities helping out, but there is no need to bring religion into it. Then you end up teaching values based on rules from thousands of years ago that are at best, not applicable, and at worst discriminatory and arbitrary.


Fuzz, the way i see religious books is that they serve a purpose of helping those who are not fully capable of figuring out life. The sad part is that those who wrote them had to skip the real reasonings as to why to do so and so is to avoid making it too complicated for the masses to understand. Much easier sometimes to follow than to figure out.


That may have been fine back in the stone age, but our society has moved beyond that. If the purpose is to "keep it simple for the dumb ones" we do society as a whole a disservice by maintaining it. Education should be taking care of that, and if its not, the education system needs to be fixed, and not rely on religion to keep the dummies from doing bad things. I understand religion had a purpose when our world view was restricted, but we are educated now. We don't need to pretend that thunder is caused by god because we don't have an explanation for it. We DO have an explanation, and we should use it. When someone asks a question we can't answer, the least helpful response is "because god, that's why". How do you ever learn anything that way? The only reason we are where we are is because people didn't accept that answer, and sought out the reason. We became more knowledgeable and our lives are better for it.

Allowing "because god, that's why" as an acceptable answer for ANYTHING does a gigantic disservice to our society. Hell, allowing George W to say 'God told me to end the tyranny in Iraq' is about a obvious a reason as any to not allow that sort of shit. Giving the leader of a country with the worlds largest military and nuclear weapons arsenal permission to do things because god spoke to him? He should have been committed, not allowed to be re-elected! I believe that he honestly BELIEVED god told him that. Its not like he is using it as a scapegoat. Having that be OK gives others the same excuse. Its not OK!

Sigh. I understand there are some good aspects to religion for moral guidance, but we don't need religion to have that guidance. It can be found elsewhere. Given all the harm it causes, I just think its time to end it all. Grow up as a species. Say goodbye to Santa Clause. Its time.
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Re: Uh oh, here we go again... Religion

Postby Stupify » Thu Jul 25, 2013 7:33 pm

to add to what i said in the other thread about religion and the forefathers. the way i see religion is a collective of suggestions on how to live one's life as advised by the previous generations to the current and future. But I do not recall seeing anywhere in any religious books that what is contained in the book is written in stone and cannot be updated as time progresses. those who oppose change are, as per my reasoning, failing to live up to their responsibilities and most often then naught cause more damage. A religious book's purpose is to guide and provide a helping hand to live a better life. Note I am specifically trying to avoid saying "A religion's purpose" and purposely saying "A religion book's purpose". The distinction is needed because what a "religion" represents is just an interpretation of one or few collectives. Example, I am a Hindu and i eat meat, pray before eating it, whereas there are some people who too are Hindus and would avoid me for the meat bit.

The fact that there are so many idiots in the world and the level of human stupidity is capable to dig so deep a grave it is a miracle that we as a race have survived so far. And the same thing wrecks havoc what a "religion" stands for and meant for.

It might make it easier to see a religion as a physics book which offers most of the basic principles but every now and then it needs to be updated and the previous beliefs corrected. To ignore change and update is as I mentioned running away from accepting your responsibility as a guiding forefathers to your future generations. It is at the same level for me as it is to change the intentions to suit ones' needs.

I defend religion on that basis and will continue to do so.
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Re: Uh oh, here we go again... Religion

Postby Stupify » Thu Jul 25, 2013 7:35 pm

Fuzz wrote:From the other thread....
Stupify wrote:
Fuzz wrote:Why do you need religion for that? Sounds like another excuse to absolve parents of responsibility and put it on someone else. I've got no problem with a social system or communities helping out, but there is no need to bring religion into it. Then you end up teaching values based on rules from thousands of years ago that are at best, not applicable, and at worst discriminatory and arbitrary.


Fuzz, the way i see religious books is that they serve a purpose of helping those who are not fully capable of figuring out life. The sad part is that those who wrote them had to skip the real reasonings as to why to do so and so is to avoid making it too complicated for the masses to understand. Much easier sometimes to follow than to figure out.


That may have been fine back in the stone age, but our society has moved beyond that. If the purpose is to "keep it simple for the dumb ones" we do society as a whole a disservice by maintaining it. Education should be taking care of that, and if its not, the education system needs to be fixed, and not rely on religion to keep the dummies from doing bad things. I understand religion had a purpose when our world view was restricted, but we are educated now. We don't need to pretend that thunder is caused by god because we don't have an explanation for it. We DO have an explanation, and we should use it. When someone asks a question we can't answer, the least helpful response is "because god, that's why". How do you ever learn anything that way? The only reason we are where we are is because people didn't accept that answer, and sought out the reason. We became more knowledgeable and our lives are better for it.

Allowing "because god, that's why" as an acceptable answer for ANYTHING does a gigantic disservice to our society. Hell, allowing George W to say 'God told me to end the tyranny in Iraq' is about a obvious a reason as any to not allow that sort of shit. Giving the leader of a country with the worlds largest military and nuclear weapons arsenal permission to do things because god spoke to him? He should have been committed, not allowed to be re-elected! I believe that he honestly BELIEVED god told him that. Its not like he is using it as a scapegoat. Having that be OK gives others the same excuse. Its not OK!

Sigh. I understand there are some good aspects to religion for moral guidance, but we don't need religion to have that guidance. It can be found elsewhere. Given all the harm it causes, I just think its time to end it all. Grow up as a species. Say goodbye to Santa Clause. Its time.



simple enough for a smart and a capable person to say. try imagining life from point of view of those who were born mentally handicapped or whose parents did not live up to their responsibilities or someone who slacked off in their educational years only to seek the purpose of life.
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Re: Uh oh, here we go again... Religion

Postby Fuzz » Thu Jul 25, 2013 7:52 pm

Stupify wrote:

simple enough for a smart and a capable person to say. try imagining life from point of view of those who were born mentally handicapped or whose parents did not live up to their responsibilities or someone who slacked off in their educational years only to seek the purpose of life.


The disadvantaged are the last people we should be pandering to. They should be taught right and wrong BECAUSE it is right or wrong, not because they live under the threat of burning in hell from making a mistake.

Only 1 in 5 Americans believe in pure evolution


and that leads to this:
Overall, 40 per cent said that those alternatives to scientific evolution should be taught in public schools, 32 per cent opposed such teaching, and a full 29 per cent had no firm opinion on the matter. Among Mormons, 76 per cent wanted creationism or intelligent design added to the curriculum, as did 57 per cent of Republicans and 41 per cent of white folks.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/07/23 ... thout_god/

Allowing this nonsense to continue is tragic. Our youth should not be indoctrinated by misinformation. Lying to children is evil and its wrong.
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Re: Uh oh, here we go again... Religion

Postby Hammer_Time » Fri Jul 26, 2013 12:22 am

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Re: Uh oh, here we go again... Religion

Postby Sauron_Daz » Fri Jul 26, 2013 12:43 am

Hammer_Time wrote:I prefer this "Prism" :wink:

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Me too..
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Re: Uh oh, here we go again... Religion

Postby Fuzz » Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:33 am

Hammer_Time wrote:Image

Evolution is scientific theory backed by scientific evidence, its not a doctrine. An alternate mythos? As if Evolution is a myth! So many things wrong with that. Blatant lies like this are what convince non-critical thinkers to question things that something like creationism deserves equal footing, despite having no evidence whatsoever.

You want to know what is a BETTER creation story than Genesis? The first chapter of the Silmarillion. More believable, and nicer poetry, too. Should we teach that in schools?
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