SSD failure and PSU?

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SSD failure and PSU?

Postby Houmoller » Thu May 23, 2013 9:47 am

Hi Xbit forum people.
I have a problem, for which I thin I have narrowed down the problem to, but I would like your input.
I am currently running my fourth SSD, first two corsair, then an OSZ and now the intel 520.
All of the SSD's have had issues, where they would crash and be undetectable by BIOS. After a hard reset, they would work again, a couple of times until they where all dead.

During all the different SSD's, I have changed my motherboard, CPU, GPU and ram. (currently MSI mobo, i3 -3220, 8gb, gtx660)
The only thing I have not changed is the PSU, which is a six year old 520watt one - not that expensive.

Since the problem has persisted over a completly new system, I think is most be because of the PSU. Could it be that power fluctuations could damage the SSDs?
In between the different SSD's I have had a normal HDD to run from, without problems.

The 3.3V is about 3.33V
and the 5V is at 5V
and 12V at 12V.


Hope you can help me, since I really doesnt have much other to go on then my hardware-hunch.

-Jørgen
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Re: SSD failure and PSU?

Postby Celt » Thu May 23, 2013 10:44 am

Not a bad hunch. SSDs take e 12V power rail IIRC, which isn't stabilised by the motherboard's electronics. As an SSD flips from read to write the power drain changes rapidly. I have Corsair SSDs (good) and an OCz (bad), but always a good PSU . . . Cheaper ones do not have the same stability on the 12V rail when the current drain fluctuates . . . And worse, when the current drain reaches maximums 12V rail is the first to suffer.. To my mind, I would definitely have a high quality PSU on that rig and have at least 30% headroom. Also calculate the actual load using this site

http://www.extreme.outervision.com/PSUEngine

If that goes higher that 350w then a "cheap" 520W PSU is going to be a problem.

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Re: SSD failure and PSU?

Postby Hammer_Time » Thu May 23, 2013 11:49 am

Hi Jorgen, welcome to the forums!!

I agree with Celt...I think it might also be psu-related. I just had a 5 year old Antec 650 Earthwatts psu fail on me after nearly constant usage ( 24/7 most of the time ). I am not upset about it, I used up its MTBF ( Mean Time Before Failure ) and and then some... but you mentioned your psu is 6 years old so that is raising warning flag here for me when reading your post. The Antec was not cheap, very high quality psu...worked perfectly for me for 5 years... you mention your 520W psu is "not that expensive" so that raises another flag for me, cheaper psu's do not last as long as more expensive/higher quality ones...

Even if the psu is reporting proper voltages, does not mean the current ( amperage ) is where it should be for your system, and voltage readings alone are no real indication of the actual "health" of a power supply...

I would replace it, or at least borrow a "good" working psu of sufficient power for your system ( 500 Watts or more ) and see if that helps with your SSD issues...

Another thing to check is that you have all the SATA controllers that the SSD's are attached to, that those SATA controllers are set to "AHCI Mode" in your motherboard's BIOS. If the SATA controllers are set to "IDE" or "Compatibility" mode then your SSDs will be very unhappy and you will have all kinds of problems like you are experiencing. ALL SSD SATA controllers must be set to AHCI mode in BIOS or they give BSOD's and other errors...

So check those two things first , best of luck!
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Re: SSD failure and PSU?

Postby Fuzz » Thu May 23, 2013 1:13 pm

I'd make sure you have a new SATA 3 cable as well. Old one could be damaged, or be SATA 2.
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Re: SSD failure and PSU?

Postby Stupify » Thu May 23, 2013 4:32 pm

wait what does SATA 3 cable vs SATA 2 have to do anything here?
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Re: SSD failure and PSU?

Postby Fuzz » Thu May 23, 2013 4:55 pm

http://www.serialata.org/documents/SATA ... o-6gbs.pdf
In the transition to SATA 6Gb/s, it will be important to use high-quality cabling. Problems may be related to the use of cables made from marginal materials that perform at the edges of SATA 3Gb/s tolerances, which could become a failure point at the faster 6Gb/s signal rates. SATAIO therefore recommends that only high quality cables and connectors be utilized for SATA 6Gb/s. .....

By embracing that the tolerances required at 6Gb/s are much tighter than at 3Gb/s, developers and end users can avoid expending resources and time troubleshooting problems that do not actually exist. Added cable length and connectors used to attach test equipment can introduce jitter and attenuation onto the link. The presence of testing tools can mask or introduce sig nal integrity issues. Test setups that performed at the margin of SATA 3Gb/s may need to b e updated to meet Revision 3.0 specs for SATA 6Gb/s to avoid setupinduced problems appearing as issues with devices under test.


I'm not saying the cable is the issue, but its an easy thing to swap, and cheap, and it COULD be the issue.
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Re: SSD failure and PSU?

Postby DIREWOLF75 » Thu May 23, 2013 5:24 pm

Since the problem has persisted over a completly new system, I think is most be because of the PSU. Could it be that power fluctuations could damage the SSDs?

Possible yes, very likely no. Also not something that can be ignored unfortunately.

During all the different SSD's, I have changed my motherboard, CPU, GPU and ram. (currently MSI mobo, i3 -3220, 8gb, gtx660)

...
In between the different SSD's I have had a normal HDD to run from, without problems.

1. Are you running with any overclocked parts?
2. Are you running tighter than spec timings in BIOS?

The only thing I have not changed is the PSU, which is a six year old 520watt one - not that expensive.

Even an old 520W shouldn´t be bad enough to cause such troubles, but it could be a bad PSU from the start. Make and model on the PSU?

And as Fuzz says, cables, cables cables! It´s the cheapest part, but use poor ones or mount them even slightly bad and you will have problems.

It shouldn´t be enough to outright kill drives, but i´ve seen worse.

And as HT says, if you don´t find anything wrong with the cables, next step is definitely to look at a better PSU.

Good luck.
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Re: SSD failure and PSU?

Postby Houmoller » Thu May 23, 2013 10:03 pm

They are brand new 6Gb/s cables, and I have tried two different ones. The system is not overclocked at all and the ram timings are default.
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Re: SSD failure and PSU?

Postby Sauron_Daz » Thu May 23, 2013 11:08 pm

So, what's the make and model of your PSU?
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Re: SSD failure and PSU?

Postby Celt » Thu May 23, 2013 11:49 pm

And, as I suggested earlier, your total system load?
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Re: SSD failure and PSU?

Postby Houmoller » Fri May 24, 2013 8:03 am

The estimated total load is about 420w :)
The psu is a Delux 520W
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Re: SSD failure and PSU?

Postby Celt » Fri May 24, 2013 12:10 pm

Houmoller wrote:The estimated total load is about 420w :)
The psu is a Delux 520W

Which will be 66% efficient if you are very lucky . . . Anything drawing over 350W will be a problem . . . Common misconception that a PSU is 100% efficient . . . Even the good ones are only 90% or so . . . Invest in a good 650W PSU (or a cheaper 800W) for sure . . . It is probably the cause . . . Not guaranteed but you have a heavily smoking gun.

Efficiency ratings for PSU's are defined by the following certificates: 80 PLUS, 80 PLUS BRONZE, 80 PLUS SILVER, 80 PLUS GOLD and 80 PLUS PLATINUM. 80 PLUS being at least 80% of the power is utilised with only a 20% or less loss in heat. The best efficiency rating being 80 PLUS Platinum, where at least 90% of power is utilised with 10% or less being lost. So even a basic 80PLUS (which the "Delux" probably isn't given the age) rated for 520W won't deliver a stable 420W load.
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Re: SSD failure and PSU?

Postby DIREWOLF75 » Fri May 24, 2013 1:20 pm

Celt wrote:
Houmoller wrote:The estimated total load is about 420w :)
The psu is a Delux 520W

Which will be 66% efficient if you are very lucky . . . Anything drawing over 350W will be a problem . . . Common misconception that a PSU is 100% efficient . . . Even the good ones are only 90% or so . . . Invest in a good 650W PSU (or a cheaper 800W) for sure . . . It is probably the cause . . . Not guaranteed but you have a heavily smoking gun.

Efficiency ratings for PSU's are defined by the following certificates: 80 PLUS, 80 PLUS BRONZE, 80 PLUS SILVER, 80 PLUS GOLD and 80 PLUS PLATINUM. 80 PLUS being at least 80% of the power is utilised with only a 20% or less loss in heat. The best efficiency rating being 80 PLUS Platinum, where at least 90% of power is utilised with 10% or less being lost. So even a basic 80PLUS (which the "Delux" probably isn't given the age) rated for 520W won't deliver a stable 420W load.


Ehm, Celt? Efficiency ratings does NOT affect nominal output rating. It effects how much the PSU draws from the wall socket to reach that nominal output. (meaning a 600W at 80% would need to draw 750W from the wall)

Just as a comparison, the 450W Corsair i have, i think it was Tomshardware that tested it to run fine up to an actual draw of over 600W.
At the same time, in the same test they had cheap 550W PSUs that failed to deliver even 400W(IIRC one 550 actually burned up at just under 500).

So, quality DOES make a big difference. And that´s brand new, the one we´re looking at here was several years old which means even its nominal output is probably down at least 10-15%

And i could find just ONE single measly little review for any "Delux" PSUs, and that was a Thai site that I couldn´t read a word, but the pictures showed a rather pessimistic view.
I failed to find out what PSU maker builds it so no hint there, but i doubt it´s any of the good ones.
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Re: SSD failure and PSU?

Postby Celt » Fri May 24, 2013 1:59 pm

Good point, and you are right about the ratings, but the cheap PSUs still fail to maintain stability at anything close to 70% load . . . I just got mixed up with stuff from reviews and the ratings system. . .
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Re: SSD failure and PSU?

Postby Houmoller » Fri May 24, 2013 9:12 pm

I have ordered a seasonic 660w platinum, looking forward to its arrival :)
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Re: SSD failure and PSU?

Postby Hammer_Time » Fri May 24, 2013 11:48 pm

That is an EXCELLENT power supply ( high quality and efficient ), I hope it solves your problems ( fairly confident it will, but you never know till you actually try it ). Best of luck! :D

BTW, I have never heard of "Delux" brand of psu either, but it does sound like one of the cheaper brands for sure... :wink:
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Re: SSD failure and PSU?

Postby Sauron_Daz » Sat May 25, 2013 12:15 am

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Re: SSD failure and PSU?

Postby Hammer_Time » Sat May 25, 2013 12:59 am

I see, thanks for the linky...they also make cases too! :

http://www.deluxworld.com/en/productdet ... 0303030103

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:lol:

They also make this crazy "vertical mouse" :

http://www.deluxworld.com/en/productdet ... 0303020101

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Re: SSD failure and PSU?

Postby DIREWOLF75 » Sat May 25, 2013 5:05 am

Houmoller wrote:I have ordered a seasonic 660w platinum, looking forward to its arrival :)

Good choice. Seasonic under their own brandname has very high quality.
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Re: SSD failure and PSU?

Postby Sauron_Daz » Sat May 25, 2013 6:33 am

Hammer_Time wrote:I see, thanks for the linky...they also make cases too! :

http://www.deluxworld.com/en/productdet ... 0303030103

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:lol:

They also make this crazy "vertical mouse" :

http://www.deluxworld.com/en/productdet ... 0303020101

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Ugh. Good thing I never heard of them before.. and now I'll act as if I never did.
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