Securing Slot 2 Processor

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Securing Slot 2 Processor

Postby nuff » Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:43 pm

Does anyone know the best way to secure a Slot 2 Pentium III Xeon after being plugged into the slot if I don't have access to any retention brackets? The motherboard is an Intel Server Board SBT2 and the two processors are both Pentium III Xeons @ 866 MHz but with a custom heatsink. These heatsinks only have the two "tabs" at the top that are suppose to keep the processor in place with the retention bracket clips.

I have thought about using zip ties, but this would only allow me to secure 1 processor easily. I also thought about duct tape but that might be too laughable to pull off. I also read about not needing the retention brackets and just sticking the CPUs on would be fine. Any and all suggestions are welcome.
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Re: Securing Slot 2 Processor

Postby STBTechAL655 » Fri Mar 29, 2013 1:46 pm

Can you post a picture of the setup? I mean the mobo and the CPUs, close up. The simplest way would be to get some of those thingies (dunno the name) that are used to attach cable ties, you know, those square things that attach to a surface and you pass cable ties thru them. You can super-glue two (or more) of them to the cpu slot, and a few of them to the CPU itself, make some king of a setup that holds the CPU from different side with cable ties. But those things should be somewhat little; don't worry about the CPU slot, it is very hard to actually damage the soldering that holds it to the mobo; unless you pull with a tractor or something, those slots are rather solid.

A picture would be very useful. And you made me very curious. :D

I got a bunch of those old systems, but I never had to improvise in terms of CPU seating in the slot. Usually the slot itself should provide enough tension to hold the CPU in place, if you don't jar the system... Unless you used some kind of wet-greasy contact cleaner, the slot itself should do... imo


Something like this? Image

It looks that the front one is passively cooled and rear one is actively cooled.
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Re: Securing Slot 2 Processor

Postby nuff » Fri Mar 29, 2013 2:07 pm

The picture you showed is pretty much the same thing. I don't have the motherboard and processor in my hands right now, I just ordered them to make an old system for fun but after I ordered I noticed that the image of the motherboard didn't show the actual retention brackets installed. The item was sold as "new" and it said accessories included but I didn't want to depend solely on luck so I wanted to see if a backup plan was available. I was able to download an image of the motherboard from the internet and I do have actual seller taken pictures of the Xeon processors though.

What you suggested (the supergluing of plastic things onto the slot) sounds like a good idea if I don't actually get retention brackets with the motherboard. I'm worried about the processors falling out if I have to move the computer around or if I bump it haha. Maybe I'm just paranoid, but I never dealt with a slot based processor before so I'm fairly lost when it comes to them.
Attachments
866-1.JPG
Xeon Front Side
866-1.JPG (52.07 KiB) Viewed 1552 times
866.JPG
Heatsink Side of Xeon
866.JPG (78.73 KiB) Viewed 1552 times
SBT2.jpg
Intel SBT2 Motherboard
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Re: Securing Slot 2 Processor

Postby Fuzz » Fri Mar 29, 2013 2:38 pm

It should come with retention brackets. Failing that, you could place the motherboard in a centrifuge with a counterwight on the other side, and spin it real fast. G forces should hold the CPU's in place.

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Re: Securing Slot 2 Processor

Postby Hammer_Time » Fri Mar 29, 2013 3:08 pm

:lol:

Retention brackets preferable of course, but if lacking you can just "stick em in" and then try not to move the computer case after you hook it up gently... hopefully you get the brackets with the mobo...good luck!
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Re: Securing Slot 2 Processor

Postby nuff » Fri Mar 29, 2013 4:07 pm

haha, you guys are great. I missed coming here and reading all the stuff you guys posted.

I also have a few more questions:

I have a PNY GeForce 8400GS PCI graphics card I plan to use as well as two Maxtor Maxline II 250GB IDE hard disks I want to put in. Do you guys think the 8400GS will actually work in the system? (I know its way overkill but I just don't want to use an integrated 8MB Rage and I already have the GS lying around). Also, do you think this motherboard is hardware capped at 137GB for hard drives? I have been reading around the net and it seems like motherboards made before 2002/2003 seem to have this problem that can't be solved with a newer OS with 48-bit addressing support.
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Re: Securing Slot 2 Processor

Postby STBTechAL655 » Fri Mar 29, 2013 6:07 pm

The VGA card should probably (most probably) work in that system, unless they borked something and did not respect the PCI 32 specifications. The HDDs will be an issue, and I don't think there is any BIOS available to get over the 137GB limitation... but you could search around.

One thing would be to short stroke the HDD, but I don't know if it is possible on those Maxtors. If it is, you could get HDDs with less capacity but increased performance due to the fact that they would use only the external sectors on the platters.

If the mobo is complete with accessories you are out of a headache. The mobo being unused and all, the contacts alone should keep the CPUs in place, but it remains to be seen. In my experience the Slot 2 is tight gripping, you actually needed to use a little force to remove the CPU after the brackets were unlocked. That's why the newer sockets were called ZIF sockets (zero insertion force). :)

And holy crap, I forgot how big the slot Xeons were, those babies prolly weigh at more than 200 grams a piece, with cooler and all. Now those were the times when CPUs were exciting, they were killing themselves to bring out more powerful hardware, now it's "Yay 5% moar powah, bow down and be amazed!"

You should post pics of the complete system when you finish it! And how much did you pay for the Xeons?
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Re: Securing Slot 2 Processor

Postby nuff » Fri Mar 29, 2013 6:23 pm

Each Xeon was $6 off Ebay for a total of $12. Everything I bought so far except the motherboard was cheap. The motherboard was only sold by 2 vendors, vendor 1 at $45 and vendor 2 at $75. I "negotiated" with the first vendor to get the price down to $43 haha (yeah, terrible negotiation skills). I'm slowly building this system, probably will finish in a month or two. I'll upload pictures when I finish, but it will take me a while. Still haven't gotten everything yet ;P.
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Re: Securing Slot 2 Processor

Postby STBTechAL655 » Fri Mar 29, 2013 7:03 pm

Nice price on the CPUs, and not too bad on the mobo, considering that you are doing it as a hobby, it is a very inexpensive one. :lol:

You just need a really good case to put it in, and actually I think that will be the most problematic part, that mobo looks somewhat not standard ATX, or it might be the angle, it could be and EATX, in this case any good old school server/workstation would do.

How much SDRam can it use? I think the limitation those days were 512 MB, but this being a server mobo it could have a higher capacity.

Edit: found some data about it. It's a beast, it's standard ATX, and I don't know where you will find four 1 GB SDRam modules. :lol:

General
Packaged Quantity 1.0
Product TypeMotherboard - ATX
Cache Memory None
Chipset Type ServerWorks ServerSet III LE (RCC Champion 3.0 LE)
Max Bus Speed 133.0 MHz
Processor Socket Slot 2
Max Processors Qty 2.0
Compatible Processors Pentium III Xeon

Supported RAM
Max Size 4.0 GB
Technology SDRAM
Bus Clock 133 MHz
Data Integrity Check ECC
Registered or Buffered Registered

Graphics
Graphics Controller ATI 3D RAGE II
Video Memory 4.0 MB

LAN
Network Interfaces Ethernet
Modem None

Expansion / Connectivity
Expansion Slot(s) 4.0 x PCI - Full-length,
3.0 x PCI 64 - Full-length,
2.0 x Memory - DIMM 168-pin,
4.0 x Processor - Slot 2
Storage Interfaces Ultra Wide SCSI - connector(s): 1 x 40pin IDC,
Ultra160 SCSI - connector(s): 1 x 68pin HD,
ATA-33 - connector(s): 1 x 68pin HD
Interfaces 1.0 x Parallel,
1.0 x PS/2 keyboard,
1.0 x PS/2 mouse,
1.0 x LAN,
2.0 x VGA,
1.0 x Serial
Internal Interfaces 1.0 x Floppy

Features
BIOS Type Phoenix

Miscellaneous
Compliant Standards Plug and Play
Width 12.0 in
Depth 13.0 in
Package Type Retail

Environmental Parameters
Min Operating Temperature 50.0 °F
Max Operating Temperature 95.0 °F


Edit 2: These is how the original setup would have looked.

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Re: Securing Slot 2 Processor

Postby nuff » Fri Mar 29, 2013 7:18 pm

Oh man, that is one big case. Guess I can't carry this around with me after I build it. I was really hoping the case won't have to be that long lol. I actually already have ordered 3GB of registered ecc 133 SDRAM off eBay. It's actually relatively cheap (~$7 a stick). I'll order the 4th stick after I prove this system actually works. STB, I sent you a PM about other stuff I need. Dunno if you have any available.

For me, I will configure this as just a basic desktop, so hopefully a spacious ATX case will do in terms of fitting in the motherboard.

Edit: After I finish, I'll probably install XP but if I have driver issues, then maybe Vista since it seems that whenever I have missing drivers in XP systems that I can't find online, Vista has them built in. This motherboard should be old enough that all drivers are already in XP.
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Re: Securing Slot 2 Processor

Postby DIREWOLF75 » Fri Mar 29, 2013 8:39 pm

Edit: After I finish, I'll probably install XP but if I have driver issues, then maybe Vista since it seems that whenever I have missing drivers in XP systems that I can't find online, Vista has them built in. This motherboard should be old enough that all drivers are already in XP.

If you have issues you may want to consider moving backwards rather than forwards and go for Win2K.
Still, as long as the XP is the Pro, it should work with dual cpu. Can´t recall how the later change to take multicore into account will act with dual cpu...
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Re: Securing Slot 2 Processor

Postby Sauron_Daz » Sat Mar 30, 2013 12:44 am

I'm curious: why are you building this?
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Re: Securing Slot 2 Processor

Postby nuff » Sat Mar 30, 2013 6:34 am

Alright, so I'll try Windows XP first, then 2000. I'm building this computer just for fun. It's a small side hobby for me.
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Re: Securing Slot 2 Processor

Postby Hammer_Time » Sat Mar 30, 2013 12:11 pm

XP or 2K, no problem...but for the love of God man, never install Vista on this contraption, W7 is so much better in so many ways, so promise me if you are thinking of Vista that you will slap yourself and then install W7 instead!! :scout: :wink: :D
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Re: Securing Slot 2 Processor

Postby nuff » Sat Mar 30, 2013 12:56 pm

Hammer_Time wrote:XP or 2K, no problem...but for the love of God man, never install Vista on this contraption, W7 is so much better in so many ways, so promise me if you are thinking of Vista that you will slap yourself and then install W7 instead!! :scout: :wink: :D


Haha, I won't even consider Vista then. Reason I initially considered it is because I feared XP might not have some drivers, but if this system was for Windows 2000 then XP most likely will have everything built in. I also considered Vista because I know (on paper) the minimum requirements is a 800MHz processor so if I tried to install it I won't be denied because "computer does not meet minimum requirements" like I might get with Windows 7. I don't actually know if Windows 7 gives that warning if I install it on a system less than 1GHz. I'll probably finish the system in two to three months. No rush here on my part heh, just taking everything one step at a time. :D
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Re: Securing Slot 2 Processor

Postby Sauron_Daz » Sat Mar 30, 2013 11:50 pm

nuff wrote:Alright, so I'll try Windows XP first, then 2000. I'm building this computer just for fun. It's a small side hobby for me.

Sounds like fun too. I would consider building a system based on a 80486 (at least a DX-II 66 MHz) running DOS if D-Fend reloaded didn't work so well..
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Re: Securing Slot 2 Processor

Postby Hammer_Time » Sun Mar 31, 2013 12:34 am

nuff wrote:
Hammer_Time wrote:XP or 2K, no problem...but for the love of God man, never install Vista on this contraption, W7 is so much better in so many ways, so promise me if you are thinking of Vista that you will slap yourself and then install W7 instead!! :scout: :wink: :D


Haha, I won't even consider Vista then. Reason I initially considered it is because I feared XP might not have some drivers, but if this system was for Windows 2000 then XP most likely will have everything built in. I also considered Vista because I know (on paper) the minimum requirements is a 800MHz processor so if I tried to install it I won't be denied because "computer does not meet minimum requirements" like I might get with Windows 7. I don't actually know if Windows 7 gives that warning if I install it on a system less than 1GHz. I'll probably finish the system in two to three months. No rush here on my part heh, just taking everything one step at a time. :D


Linux would be best but if you are going the Windows router, W7 will install on it for sure.. they have "recommended minimum sys requirements like a 1 Ghz cpu, but it will still install on older slower cpu's" :

http://boshdirect.com/blogs/tech/window ... dware.html

Windows 7 outperforms XP on Old Hardware


To show you how low you can go with system hw for W7:

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Window ... ,8110.html

Windows 7 Successfully Installed on a Pentium II

11:31 AM - June 22, 2009 by Jane McEntegart - source: Tom's Hardware US

When Microsoft made the Windows 7 RC available, it also issued an official list of system requirements for anyone hoping to install the OS:

1GHz processor (32- or 64-bit)
1GB of main memory
16GB of available disk space
Support for DX9 graphics with 128MB of memory (for the Aero interface)


Not exactly monstrous and the same as what you needed to run Vista years ago. That said, one Windows enthusiast decided to push the limits and in a kind of “how low can you go” scenario, managed to get Microsoft’s latest OS running on a Pentium II at 266 MHz CPU, 96 MB of RAM and a 4 MB graphics card.

The user hackerman1 posted about his efforts on the Windows Club Forums for the world to see and his fellow posters we, like the other users on the forum, were suitably impressed. Hackerman1 said he did three different tests (128 MB, 96 MB and 64 MB of RAM). Of these, he had success with both 128 MB and 96 MB, while his 64 MB attempt returned error messages reading “insufficient memory.”


Hackerman1 went on to say that he also has a Pentium I with a 166 MHz CPU and a 1 MB graphics card and says if he can dig up the PSU, he’s going to test that next. Check out the screenshots below.


Microsoft's "minimum sys reqs" for W7 are a guideline, that is the minimum that M$ says is necessary for a "good" W7 experience... for better experience go with their "recommended sys reqs" of course...but they will not prevent you from installing W7 on slower hw, it will just run slower of course the slower your platform is...

There is a limit when it comes to system ram though, the above quote shows that W7 will barf out an "insufficient memory" eorror message if you only have 64 MB of ram installed, more than that it will install, although it will run like crap with such a low amount of ram installed ( more than 64 GB but less than 512 MB ).

Your system will "fly" with W7 on it... :scout: Dual Xeon 866 Mhz cpu's with 3 GB of ECC 133 Mhz ram that you ordered... and that PCI version 8400GS card should work fine in one of your mobo's standard PCI slots as STB kindly linked the specs for your server board, has both PCI 64 bit slots ( probably never use ) and 3 standard PCI slots... you might have to add a PCI sound card for sound in your system, no onboard audio right??

Dire raises a good point that Windows XP Home only supports 1 cpu, not two... but XP Pro does support max. 2 cpus:

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/wind ... f93beb54e0

Hi Luigi A. Cruz,
The number of processors you can use depends on the version of Windows XP you use, though there are some caveats. Be sure to know what you're doing before you attempt to set up multiple processors.
Dual-Core
Microsoft's licensing policy limits the number of processors Windows supports for its Home and Professional versions, as outlined below. It's important to understand, however, that this is on a per-processor basis, not a per-core basis. This means that, under the licensing policy, a dual- or even quad-core processor counts as a single processor---something that confused many people in the early days of dual-core technology.

Versions of Windows
Knowing that, the limit of the number of processors is determined by your version of Windows XP. If you're not sure which version you're running, check the sticker on your computer. It will say the version there beside your license key; you may right-click "My Computer" and click "Properties." The window that pops up will tell you which version of XP you're running.
XP Home
The Home edition of Windows XP---the edition that came with most machines home users bought from the likes of Dell and HP, before Windows Vista---supports only one processor. This means if you want to install more than one processor and you run Windows XP Home, you may need to switch to Professional, or upgrade Windows to a newer version with support for multiple processors.
XP Professional
If you want to use two processors, Windows XP Professional is the way to go. While this advanced program cannot run more than two processors, this is an improvement over Home. Note that, because dual-core processors count as a single processor, you could theoretically have four cores with this license or even eight, if you are willing to buy two quad-core processors.
I suggest you to visit this below provided Microsoft KB article.
Processor and memory capabilities of Windows XP Professional x64 Edition and of the x64-based versions of Windows Server 2003
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/888732
   
Also refer:
XP Home supports 1 processor and XP Pro supports two processors, regardless of the number of cores.
http://www.microsoft.com/licensing/abou ... g.aspx#E1B


So while XP Pro would make use of both your processors, I still recommend W7 over XP for your rig...will run just as fast , possibly faster due to better memory management and of course W7 is more compatible with latest browsers, I am running IE10 for W7 , you cannot even install IE9 on Win XP!! And so forth...better to have a modern platform than be stuck with an old deadend one ( XP ).

http://itexpertvoice.com/home/multi-cor ... windows-7/

Beware, W7 Home and Home Premium both have same limitations as XP and Vista Home editions, namely it only supports 1 physical cpu ( can be multicore of course ). For dual cpu support you need the W7 "Pro" or "Ultimate" or "Enterprise" editions as shown in this chart:

http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/14 ... tions.html

I recommend you get W7 Pro ( or Ultimate ) edition for your project here.
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Re: Securing Slot 2 Processor

Postby Hammer_Time » Sun Mar 31, 2013 12:53 am

Sauron_Daz wrote:
nuff wrote:Alright, so I'll try Windows XP first, then 2000. I'm building this computer just for fun. It's a small side hobby for me.

Sounds like fun too. I would consider building a system based on a 80486 (at least a DX-II 66 MHz) running DOS if D-Fend reloaded didn't work so well..


:lol: :scout: :D True that!!
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Re: Securing Slot 2 Processor

Postby Sauron_Daz » Sun Mar 31, 2013 2:05 am

XP is also not getting any updates anymore.. another reason to go W7.
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Re: Securing Slot 2 Processor

Postby nuff » Sun Mar 31, 2013 8:56 am

Hmm ok, so only Professional editions of Windows. What about Windows 8 Pro? I read Windows 8 performs faster than 7. I don't really mind the whole metro aspect, but then again, with regards to Vista, 7, and 8, I don't have a way to install them directly. I only have a CD Drive for this computer and I am not sure if I can install Windows using an external DVD Drive. If I install anything other than XP, I will install XP first using the internal CD Drive then upgrade to 7 or 8. I do know for Windows 8 I can download the install files online after providing a legitimate CD Key (I do have one of those I got from my university before I left) but I don't really want to bog down two 866MHz processors haha.

Edit: Just realized my version of Windows 8 is 64 bit..., forget what I just said about upgrading to 8. Noticed that my Windows 7 copy is 64 bit too. Looks like I can only do XP or Vista now. The only way I can upgrade to 8 is by installing XP and downloading the 3 GB file from MS using their exe and installing that way.

Edit 2: I did order a $4 PCI audio card by C-Media or some random company. As long as I can hear the beeps of Windows I'm content. As for upgrading 8, I don't even think the download method would work as the license key is a student version so I don't think the Windows 8 install exe will even allow me to download it. I can't test it until I get XP up and running on the system though.

So far I have ordered or have in person: CD Drive, 80GB 2.5" IDE Hard Disk, 2.5" IDE to 3.5" IDE adapter, 3 x 1GB ECC SDRAM, 1 x 512MB ECC SDRAM, 2 x 866 Xeon, random pci sound, (maybe geforce 8400), SBT2 mobo.

I still need: case, maybe a SCSI setup, graphics card (if I don't use 8400), and PSU
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