looking for a new motherboard, dual socket.

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looking for a new motherboard, dual socket.

Postby Silver » Sat Mar 23, 2013 12:56 am

Always wanted a dual socket workstation.

So now Im looking for a dual socket Xeon board Socket 2011.
Im thinking form factor is not a problem EATX fits, HPTX I think fits. Case for this build is Lian-Li PC-X2000F.
SLI support is something I want the board to have and preferably a bunch of USB3 ports.
Overclocking is not a priority, stability is more important i think.
Price, I don't want to spend too much.. but will spend some extra for the perfect board :)

I was looking at: EVGA Classified SR-X (P/N: 270-SE-W888-KR)
but it seems to not be avalible any longer in Sweden.
was listed at 4155 SEK ($640). But I guess it can be ordered from abroad.

I really like the design and it has 6xUSB3 ports, it supports SLI/Tri-SLI/Quad-SLI wich is nice.
Memory capacity is *only* 96GB wich might be a drawback.. looking at the server/workstation boards they support often 512GB/768GB/1TB RAM wich might be good in 5-10 years if this computer is still in use by then.

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Back to the questions are there any boards from server/workstation manufacturers such as Supermicro or Tyan wich are dual socket 2011 with SLI support and many USB3 ports ? :) Preferably a price cap at $650 but might consider spending more for that perfect board lol ^^

Or any other boards you think I should consider from Asus, Gigabyte or any other manufacturer ??

Also how long before this platform gets replaced if anyone knows the intel roadmap ?
I know there are 8-cores avalible for this platform right now.. thought they are out of my price range.
10-cores are as far as I know only avalible for Socket 1567.
But there seems to be talk of Ivy Bridge E/EP with 12-cores and Haswell-EP with 14-cores on the rumor mill.
I hope some of these will be socket 2011 for future upgrades :mrgreen:

Might be some months before this computer is built.. as I want to save some money before splurging.
Right now I have case, psu, win7.
Specs:

Intel Core i7 4930K, Kingston 32GB
ASUS GeForce GTX 770 4GB, ASUS P9X79

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Re: looking for a new motherboard, dual socket.

Postby DIREWOLF75 » Sat Mar 23, 2013 6:31 am

First of all, do you NEED a dual socket system? Nowadays when you can get 8 core systems with ease, the reasons for dual physical cpu are minimal for most people.

I write the above as someone who DID get a dual socket A system, had i known then that if i had waited just a another year and a bit i could have gotten a A64-X2, i would have.

Dual sockets today are only worth it if you have some serious number crunching that needs to be done. Or maybe if you´re going to run a lot of virtual machines?

If you´re just looking for the most high performance system for personal home use you can get, then you´re very likely looking the wrong way. A 4*2 i7 with highest possible clockspeed mated with fastest possible RAM will give better performance.


For some boards:
This link should show you what 2011 boards they have, i simply haven´t kept up well enough to just recommend something:
http://www.liontech.se/CBC.aspx?q=c:361 ... 1012;ps:50
The physical store is in Spånga/Stockholm and tends to be very good.

Back to the questions are there any boards from server/workstation manufacturers such as Supermicro or Tyan wich are dual socket 2011 with SLI support and many USB3 ports ? :) Preferably a price cap at $650 but might consider spending more for that perfect board lol ^^

This one? Boards like this is probably your best bet.
http://www.liontech.se/PartDetail.aspx? ... 69;c:36123
For Registered Memory, Max. 256GB DDR3 1600/1333/1066/800 MHz

Supports NVIDIA® 4-Way SLI™ Technology
Supports AMD Quad-GPU CrossFireX™ Technology

4 x USB port(s) (2 at back panel, blue, 2 at mid-board) ( USB3 )
6 x USB 2.0

Difficult to find boards with more than 4 USB3. And dual socket 2011 together with SLI is not a common thing either.

I hope some of these will be socket 2011 for future upgrades

Do NOT count on being able to upgrade to newer CPUs.

Memory capacity is *only* 96GB wich might be a drawback.. looking at the server/workstation boards they support often 512GB/768GB/1TB RAM wich might be good in 5-10 years if this computer is still in use by then.

Unless you have something specific that you truly expect to use that much RAM, 96GB is very likely to last 10 years without problems.
Outside of special needs, the optimal RAM size today is 8GB.
10 years ago that number was roughly 2GB. 5 years before that, it was 768MB.
So unless programmers gets horribly lazy because they expect everyone to suddenly have SSDs or something, i doubt that that number will be above 32GB in 10 years.
And although i vehemently detest Win8, don´t forget that it actually lowered the bar for optimal amount of RAM from Win7.

And who knows, i/you/w might switch completely to something like Linux Zorin if MS keeps screwing up like with Win8. Then optimal RAM might still be 8GB in 10 years... :mrgreen:
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Re: looking for a new motherboard, dual socket.

Postby Silver » Sat Mar 23, 2013 2:47 pm

DIREWOLF75 wrote:First of all, do you NEED a dual socket system? Nowadays when you can get 8 core systems with ease, the reasons for dual physical cpu are minimal for most people.

Yes and no, I guess it's more want than actually need.
Thought then I would have a reason to try some CAD and 3D rendering software for using computer to its full potential ;)

But im guessing software in a few years will get more multithreaded.
So its also a case of future proofing.
Why not get 12-cores (2x6-core) with upgrade to total 16 cores possible and just maybe a possible upgrade to 24-core down the line. If 12-core CPU's gets released for socket 2011.

That Asus board supporting 256GB RAM, SLI and a few USB3 ports looks interessting, to bad it's not in the red & black color scheme :P

DIREWOLF75 wrote:Outside of special needs, the optimal RAM size today is 8GB.
10 years ago that number was roughly 2GB. 5 years before that, it was 768MB.


I belive 16GB would be good for certain photo editing sofware etc.
As someone who right now have a 5 year old motherboard witch tops out at 8GB.. I find it annoying and would much rather that it would have supported 16/32/64GB.

RAM does increase alot over time. Someone questioned why I put so much RAM in the computer.. *You will never need that much* and it was 64 MB :D Uhm maybe it was like 17 years ago IIRC...
Specs:

Intel Core i7 4930K, Kingston 32GB
ASUS GeForce GTX 770 4GB, ASUS P9X79

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Re: looking for a new motherboard, dual socket.

Postby Hammer_Time » Sat Mar 23, 2013 3:46 pm

With a budget of $650 for your dual socket mobo alone, I would also recommend you take Dire's advice and go single socket... I doubt you would really benefit from dual cpu's much since you can buy such high performance 6 and 8 core processors currently.

Here is what I would recommend you strive for ( balance of price and performance ):

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6813131802

ASUS Rampage IV Extreme LGA 2011 Intel X79 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 Extended ATX Intel Motherboard

ROG Extreme Engine Digi+ II, 4-way SLI/CFX, OC Key

$439.99


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6819116492

Intel Core i7-3930K Sandy Bridge-E 3.2GHz (3.8GHz Turbo) LGA 2011 130W Six-Core Desktop Processor BX80619i73930K

32 nm Sandy Bridge-E 130W
12MB L3 Cache
6 x 256KB L2 Cache

$569.99


Easily overclocks to 4.8 to 5.0 Ghz with good cooling!

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820231504

G.SKILL Ripjaws Z Series 32GB (8 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 2133 (PC3 17000) Desktop Memory Model F3-17000CL9Q2-32GBZH

DDR3 2133 (PC3 17000)
Timing 9-11-10-28
Cas Latency 9
Voltage 1.65V

$319.99


bit overkill, but might as well get it over with...and you can probably oc the ram to 2400 Mhz easily if you wanted... buying 8 x 4GB enables full "quad-channel" memory access...

This requires no explanation:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6814121724

ASUS GTX TITAN-6GD5 GeForce GTX TITAN 6GB 384-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 SLI Support Video Card

$999.99


It that is too expensive ( which it is! ), then just get a pair of GTX 660 Ti's in SLi and be happy!!

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6814125450

GIGABYTE GV-N66TOC-3GD GeForce GTX 660 Ti 3GB 192-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card

Get $150 value in-game coupon w/ purchase, limited offer

$349.99
$319.99 after $30.00 rebate card


x 2 for SLi ...

Two of these in RAID 0 of course:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820147193

SAMSUNG 840 Pro Series MZ-7PD256BW 2.5" 256GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)

"One of the top performing SSDs we have ever seen"–The SSD Review

$239.99
x 2 pieces

Plus whatever large SATA hdd you want for data storage...

That would be one rockin system, good for CAD, games, whatever!! :scout:
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Re: looking for a new motherboard, dual socket.

Postby DIREWOLF75 » Sat Mar 23, 2013 5:22 pm

I belive 16GB would be good for certain photo editing sofware etc.
As someone who right now have a 5 year old motherboard witch tops out at 8GB.. I find it annoying and would much rather that it would have supported 16/32/64GB.

I meant optimal for general use, ie as long as you don´t use any specific software that alone requires more memory, as then you obviously by default already need more.

Yes and no, I guess it's more want than actually need.
Thought then I would have a reason to try some CAD and 3D rendering software for using computer to its full potential

BAD thinking. FIRST make sure you have something that needs that kind of ability.

Have you checked the pricing on the kind of cpu:s you´re talking about?
Cheapest 6 core from Liontech:
http://www.liontech.se/PartDetail.aspx? ... 13;c:36124
2Ghz, 3.632SEK(*2).
Cheapest 8 core:
http://www.liontech.se/PartDetail.aspx? ... 04;c:36124
1.8Ghz, 9.777SEK, and you still need TWO.

How about instead you find a single socket system and load it up with this cpu:
http://www.liontech.se/PartDetail.aspx? ... 52;c:36124
6 core 12 thread, 3.5/4Ghz and 2MB L2 per core. "just" 9.248SEK.
Or the one HT suggested:
http://www.liontech.se/PartDetail.aspx? ... 68;c:36124
Just 5.233SEK, and still get 3.2Ghz.

But im guessing software in a few years will get more multithreaded.
So its also a case of future proofing.

CAD and 3D already make decent use of multithreading. While most everything else will cap out where a single thread tops off. And since i got my dual socket system in 2003, i cant say i´ve really seen much improvement in multithreading usage.
Games have improved a good bit, but it was just late 2011 that IIRC Tomshardware tested that the optimal number of cores for gaming was 3.

Why not get 12-cores (2x6-core) with upgrade to total 16 cores possible and just maybe a possible upgrade to 24-core down the line. If 12-core CPU's gets released for socket 2011.

Dual 12 core... Urgh, you realise what those are going to cost?
Probably enough to buy a small car. Or maybe more.


RAM does increase alot over time. Someone questioned why I put so much RAM in the computer.. *You will never need that much* and it was 64 MB :D Uhm maybe it was like 17 years ago IIRC...

:lol:
I got 16MB of EDO RAM with my P166 in 1996(?), i was lucky though, because my motherboard had a single SDRAM slot aside from the 4 EDO RAM slots. So a few years later i could pop in a 64MB PC100 module(running at 66mhz).
Still, that´s the time when RAM really changed, when the jump from earlier RAM to SDRAM was made, my friend who bought his P150 just shortly earlier didn´t get an SDRAM slot and he almost settled for 8MB.
Just about 2-3 years there and RAM sizes jumped from 4-8MB up to 64-256MB.
After that however, it hasn´t been nearly as "jumpy".

And the trend actually seems to level off even more, despite how cheap RAM is getting today, new systems are not commonly given much more, instead the prices are cut.
I mean, i paid more for that single stick of 64MB PC-100 than i paid for my current 4GB 800Mhz DDR2. And DDR2 today is comparatively expensive. And yet, few bother going with more than 8 or at most 16GB of RAM.
Just no need for most people.

If you really expect to get serious with 3D or CAD, sure you can use one heck of a lot, but futureproofing it is not. In 10 years you wont need 128GB any more than you need it today. Well unless, as i said before, MS goes on an idiot spree again.
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Re: looking for a new motherboard, dual socket.

Postby Hammer_Time » Sat Mar 23, 2013 7:52 pm

I agree with the amount of ram... he could start off with 16 GB ( 2 x 8 GB or 4 x 4 GB since he would have total 8 ram slots in the Asus 79X mobo I listed ) and then add more in the future if necessary...put the saved money into peripherals...better monitor or awesome keyboard/mouse, speakers etc... :D

DIREWOLF75 wrote:How about instead you find a single socket system and load it up with this cpu:
http://www.liontech.se/PartDetail.aspx? ... 52;c:36124
6 core 12 thread, 3.5/4Ghz and 2MB L2 per core. "just" 9.248SEK.

Or the one HT suggested:
http://www.liontech.se/PartDetail.aspx? ... 68;c:36124
Just 5.233SEK, and still get 3.2Ghz.


Er, that is incorrect, the i7-3790X has 256KB L2 cache per core:

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/di ... 70x_2.html

Image

and 15 MB L3 cache (shared).

The i7-3930-K I listed previously also has the same 256 KB L2 ( per core, 6 x 256 KB L2 ) but 12 MB of L3 cache, however 12 MB is still a fair bit of L3 cache and this cpu is very overclockable ( 4.8 to 5.0 Ghz with good cooling ) and much cheaper than the i7-3790X with very similar performance especially once you overclock it:

http://www.xbitlabs.com/images/cpu/core ... -3970x.png

Image

Check out the 3ds Max 2011 rendering scores of this cpu @ 4.7 Ghz!! Impressive! :

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/di ... html#sect0

However, if some of the features of the LGA 2011 platform are more appealing to you, then you should first of all consider the junior six-core Core i7-3930K. Its performance is substantially different from that of quad-core LGA 2011 and LGA 1155 CPUs, but its price is not as high as that of an extreme Sandy Bridge-E processor – Core i7-3960X.


Best value in LGA 2011 platform...
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Re: looking for a new motherboard, dual socket.

Postby Silver » Sun Mar 24, 2013 1:00 am

Thanks guys its still a work in progress but im leaning towards a dual socket platform..
the motherboard may cost a little more but that is only a small stepping stone.
I already have the *expensive case* and a perhaps totally overkill PSU (1200W PCP&C Silencer) because I was planning for getting dual CPU and dual GPU. Maybe wishful thinking but it will get there eventually ;)

If it is possible to install 1 CPU and 1 GPU from the beginning and then upgrade later that is fine.
then the computer will be upgradable for the next few years it will have the possibility of turning into a real beastly machine if i get the financial means to make it so :)

INTEL CPU/Core i7-3970X 3.50GHz LGA2011 TRAY 9.248 SEK <-- CPU Dire suggested.
INTEL Core E5-1660/ 3.30G 15M Tray LGA2011-0 9.425 SEK <-- Simmilar Xeon version with 6-cores.. cost almost the same.
Specs:

Intel Core i7 4930K, Kingston 32GB
ASUS GeForce GTX 770 4GB, ASUS P9X79

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Re: looking for a new motherboard, dual socket.

Postby Silver » Sun Mar 24, 2013 1:07 am

Samsung 840 Pro is a SSD Ive been looking at also.
Either that or possibly Intel.

I havn't really looked into pricing and specs of PCI-E SSD's.. thought I know they used to be faster than the regular ones.

one of the reasons I really liked the EVGA board is that it has 7 PCI-E slots.
so you can have 2-3 video cards and a soundcard and a SSD + network / scsi card or whatever you need.
Specs:

Intel Core i7 4930K, Kingston 32GB
ASUS GeForce GTX 770 4GB, ASUS P9X79

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Re: looking for a new motherboard, dual socket.

Postby Sauron_Daz » Sun Mar 24, 2013 1:15 am

Hammer_Time wrote:
Intel Core i7-3930K Sandy Bridge-E 3.2GHz (3.8GHz Turbo) LGA 2011 130W Six-Core Desktop Processor BX80619i73930K

32 nm Sandy Bridge-E 130W
12MB L3 Cache
6 x 256KB L2 Cache

$569.99


Easily overclocks to 4.8 to 5.0 Ghz with good cooling!


Overclocking a workstation??
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Re: looking for a new motherboard, dual socket.

Postby Sauron_Daz » Sun Mar 24, 2013 1:22 am

Silver wrote:Samsung 840 Pro is a SSD Ive been looking at also.
Either that or possibly Intel.


The Samsung is consistently at the top of performance: http://www.anandtech.com/show/6597/tran ... b-review/5
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Re: looking for a new motherboard, dual socket.

Postby Silver » Sun Mar 24, 2013 1:35 am

Workstation.. stability if you have 12 cores there should be plenty of performance without need for overclocking.

Something like this might be interessting.. unless its silly expensive wich might be the case. Havn't seen any pricing yet.

Fusion-io ioDrive II 365 GB
http://www.fusionio.com/products/iodrive2/

Image

Edit:
Eeek ok forget about it !! Price found: $5,950

Back to looking at the Samsung 840 Pro :mrgreen:
Specs:

Intel Core i7 4930K, Kingston 32GB
ASUS GeForce GTX 770 4GB, ASUS P9X79

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Re: looking for a new motherboard, dual socket.

Postby Sauron_Daz » Sun Mar 24, 2013 1:40 am

Don't know if there even is an OC option on such boards..
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Re: looking for a new motherboard, dual socket.

Postby Silver » Sun Mar 24, 2013 2:22 am

I just noticed that 16GB DDR3 memory modules are avalible.. does this make the EVGA SR-X take 192GB ?? 12 slots x 16GB ?
Wintec and Kingston have 64GB kits with 16GB ECC registered modules on Newegg.

I also found that 32GB modules also exists but at a silly high price point.. would this push the maximum limit to 384GB ??
or is there some hardware limitations ?? If not 384GB possible does not seem limiting at all.
Specs:

Intel Core i7 4930K, Kingston 32GB
ASUS GeForce GTX 770 4GB, ASUS P9X79

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Re: looking for a new motherboard, dual socket.

Postby nosirrahx » Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:01 am

I have a SB-E workstation so I though I should chime in here. I have the i7-3960X set to 4.6 for turbo multiplier on Thermaltake CLW0217 Water 2.0 for cooling. This thing destroys everything I throw at it and never gets anywhere near hot. It is also rock stable.

For ram I have 16 gigs of DDR3 2133 BUT I am going to up this to 32 gigs as I have seen usage top 12 gigs quite often and even 15 gigs from time to time. If you are using this PC for work more typical of workstation type work I would go with 32 gigs. I have at least 5 XP VMs running inside of 7 64 ultimate at all times just to give you an idea of my personal usage.


I thought about dual socket for a while but as there was no way to turbo OC 2 way server CPUs I opted to go single desktop CPU instead. While a lot of computer work loves multiple cores you cannot get away from the computer work that loves ghz. The i7-3960X was a good fit for me as I could get both. I know I could have gone K instead of X and save $ but I wanted the higher L3 and could afford it. If the K chip had the same L3 I would have got that one instead. Unless you have a lot of $ to burn I would just go with the K, you wont miss the extra L3 that much.

Samsung 840 Pro is a SSD Ive been looking at also.


I have 8 of these in raid 10 on a 4 gig areca raid card. The disk throughput is amazing but for most people there is no way to justify the price. For a performance workstation you could look into combining 2 Intel technologies, raid and SRT. First set up 2 large HDDs in raid 1 and then use SRT to enable SSD caching. This is a decent way to get redundancy, huge capacity and high performance without spending huge amounts of $.
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Re: looking for a new motherboard, dual socket.

Postby DIREWOLF75 » Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:38 am

Er, that is incorrect, the i7-3790X has 256KB L2 cache per core:

Gah! Clumsy me! I mean i READ the correct numbers on the site, and still manage to type incorrectly somehow? :oops:

That´s just horrible.





I just noticed that 16GB DDR3 memory modules are avalible.. does this make the EVGA SR-X take 192GB ?? 12 slots x 16GB ?

Dont expect it to run with more than the specs says is it´s maximum. It might work anyway but don´t count on it. It may not be able to run larger modules than 8GB or something, at all.
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Re: looking for a new motherboard, dual socket.

Postby Silver » Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:47 am

DIREWOLF75 wrote:Dont expect it to run with more than the specs says is it´s maximum. It might work anyway but don´t count on it. It may not be able to run larger modules than 8GB or something, at all.

Not many people in the SR-X demographic can afford 16GB or 32GB DIMMs.
Remember, though, that the SR-2 was only rated to 48GB, but people frequently ran up to 96GB.

If the older motherboard in the same series did run larger modules than specified on the official specs.. then I give it a good chanse that atleast 16GB modules will work.
Trying to look on the glass from the half-full point of view :wink:

Edit: found someone using 192GB
Yes, it definately is possible to run with 12x16 = 192GB of memory on the SR-X.
As you have seen in my sig its Hynix 16GB 1333MHz ECC modules.
Specs:

Intel Core i7 4930K, Kingston 32GB
ASUS GeForce GTX 770 4GB, ASUS P9X79

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Re: looking for a new motherboard, dual socket.

Postby Hammer_Time » Sun Mar 24, 2013 8:46 am

nosirrahx has some very wise words above, take heed! :scout:
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Re: looking for a new motherboard, dual socket.

Postby Sauron_Daz » Sun Mar 24, 2013 10:12 am

Which words? Not "chanse" :mrgreen:
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Re: looking for a new motherboard, dual socket.

Postby Silver » Thu Mar 28, 2013 5:28 am

Just beeing bored posting some pics.
these are the 2 components ive got so far.

next will be motherboard.. hence this topic. :)

Lian Li Tyr PC-X2000F
Image

PC Power & Cooling Silencer Mk III 1200W
Image
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Specs:

Intel Core i7 4930K, Kingston 32GB
ASUS GeForce GTX 770 4GB, ASUS P9X79

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Re: looking for a new motherboard, dual socket.

Postby Hammer_Time » Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:40 am

Only 1200 Watts psu??!! ... pussy!! :mrgreen: :P
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