[SOLVED] Upgrading from HD4850

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[SOLVED] Upgrading from HD4850

Postby sevendp » Thu Mar 14, 2013 9:22 pm

Hi all ...
long time not see
:)

i'm back with question ... please help ...
my current spec:
E5400@3,4GHz
1TB & 120GB HDD
4GB RAM
DA HD4850 512MB
ACBEL 420Watt PSU

i have a plan to upgrade my HD4850 ... i have budget around 140 - 150 US$
my question:
1. which one is good for the money HD7770 or GTX 650TI ? or i must wait HD7790 or new GTX650TI based on http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Nvidia-650-GTX-Ti,21531.html
im planning to play newest Tomb Raider (this game have cutest Lara, i think :D i would very happy if TressFX enabled & still playable), any maybe Crysis 3 (i hear low setting still have good graphics)
2. will my processor bottleneck it ?
3. i still can use my old PSU or i must upgrade it ?


many thanks guys
regards,
dp
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Re: [HELP] Upgrading from HD4850

Postby Hammer_Time » Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:10 pm

Hi DP!! Welcome Back!! :D

Okay, given your current system ( Acbel 420 W psu, and a dual core cpu ), it would not make sense to put in a super powerful card, and given your budget of $150 it makes more sense to put in a decent midrange card like the GTX 650 Ti that you mention.

Your Acbel 420 W psu will be strong enough for a card like the GTX 650 Ti, it is strong enough for your current HD 4850 card and I don't think the 650 Ti card draws more power than that card, if it does, it will be a tiny amount more...

The GTX 650 Ti would be ideal for your rig for a number of reasons. This card is nearly as powerful as my own GTX 560 Ti ( people with dyslexia will no doubt get confused reading this post :wink: ), their 3DMark 11 scores are close...my card is faster, but not all that much faster...

So the GTX 650 Ti is a great card within your price range. You should be able to play Crysis 3 on medium settings at 1440x900 , you could play higher but your dual core ( not quad core ) cpu will hold you back a wee bit of course, Crysis 3 loves cores...

For example, I am able to play Crysis 3 on High settings at 1600x1200 with only the very odd slowdown in heavy action scenes ( I had it on Very High settings before at 1920x1200 but too many slowdowns during intense action so I had to lower some settings a bit ).

My rig: Q9400 quad oc to 3.35 Ghz, 4 GB DDR-1333 Mhz ( running at that speed ), GTX 560 Ti @ 880 Mhz ( stock is 850 Mhz ).

So based on your rig specs, I am guessing that if you put a GTX 650 Ti card in it, it would be able to handle Crysis 3 at medium settings ( low is for cards like the 7770 etc. ) at 1440x900 or possibly 1600x1200 res...it would still look quite decent at those settings, I tried them out just for fun after installing the game just to see the image quality difference, there is not all that much difference between medium and high tbh , but there is a noticeable iq difference between low and medium... low is not bad, but it does not do the game justice visually...

Here is Crysis 3 benchmarked on midrange graphics cards:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/cry ... 451-5.html

Image

The GTX 650 Ti gets an average frame rate of 33.5 fps, very playable at those settings! ( 1600x1080 High settings , High Texture, 2x SMAA, 8x AF ).

Of course they are using a much faster Intel i7 six-core core cpu in their testbed than your dualcore, but you should expect somewhat similar results even with your dual core as the game is more gpu bound than cpu bound. It will deffo run slower on your system, but not THAT much slower...

Certainly you should have smooth gaming at Medium settings ( perhaps even High ) at that resolution or 1440x900 which still looks "good" tbh...

Here is Crysis 3 running on your cpu at stock speed, and with a much crappier nVidia GT 430 video card!! :

http://www.mytoptrailer.com/show.php?vi ... Ry8&play=1

You could expect it to look about twice as good with your overclocked cpu and a sweet GTX 650 Ti card! :D

Don't forget to play FarCry 3 as well when you get your new vidcard, it is just as beautiful ( or very nearly ) as Crysis 3, and way longer ( single player ) with all kinds of optional side missions...I thought FC3 was a lot more "fun" tbh... Crysis 3 is visually impressive on a high end system but the gameplay is the "same old same old" for the most part, and the single player is the shortest ever!! ( 4 to 5 hours for an expert player to finish it )... FC3 can go on pretty much forever, much better value imho...

You linked to a "faster" version of the GTX 650 Ti coming out to be clocked at 928 Mhz, no need to wait for that cuz you can already buy a faster factory-overclocked version for cheap here! :

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6814127704

MSI Power Edition N650Ti PE 1GD5/OC GeForce GTX 650 Ti 1GB 128-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 HDCP Ready Video Card

Get $75 value in-game coupon w/ purchase, limited offer

GeForce GTX 650 Ti

Core Clock
993MHz

CUDA Cores
768

$139.99
Save: $20.00 (13%)
$119.99 after $20.00 rebate card


Not bad for $140, only $120 after $20 MIR... MSi make decent video cards...
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Re: [HELP] Upgrading from HD4850

Postby sevendp » Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:35 pm

thanks for the info bro!
i think u r sleeping now ... so fast to reply ...
LOL :P

yupe i think my CPU will bottleneck it... but if i upgrade procie i must upgrade all (procie, mobo & ram too) out of budget for now :)
thanks for your recommendation ... FYI my Benq monitor support max 1600x900 resolution (will have near 1680x1050's result i think)
then what about my PSU ? can i still use it ?
according http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gam ... 107-3.html
a GTX650i just need 400W (minimal)... so 420W is ok right ? :)
HD7850 looks good in 165US$ but in my country is 200US$++ :(
and about video card memory, is 2GB make sense comparing to 1GB in 1600x900 resolution?
my old rig can play Crysis 2 with low&some in medium setting (playable & good looking)
thanks
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Re: [HELP] Upgrading from HD4850

Postby Hammer_Time » Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:44 pm

He he, no worries, I slept earlier! :twisted: :D

Yes, Tom's hw says you need a minimum "400 Watt" psu ( they are assuming an average quality brand when they make these general recommendations about psu's ) so your Acbel 420W psu will be just fine, the GTX 650 Ti does not draw all that much power to run...

7850 is a slightly stronger card but as you said it would cost you $200 in your neck of the woods so that is out of your budget range...

The 650 Ti can match a 7850 in certain games, but is only as fast as a 7770 in other games, depends on the actual game. Overall, a 650 Ti has performance greater than a 7770 on average, but less than the 7850 ( except certain games of course ). nVidia has priced the card accordingly...

I think the 650 Ti is perfect for your system and budget, go for it!! 8)

2 GB of video ram is only necessary when playing HD resolution ( 1920x1080 or higher ) and with AA cranked up...then it takes advantage of it... you will never need that much video ram...

For example, my GTX 560 Ti only has 1 GB of ram, and when playing Crysis 3 , MSI Afterburner utility shows that only about 800 MB of video ram is actually being used during gameplay... so still have about 200 MB of video ram to spare of my 1 GB...

Don't waste money on 2 GB version of GTX 650 Ti, it is a waste of your money and you will never use given your current monitor's max resolution... 2 GB is a marketing trick to sucker people to spend more money than they need to...

Yes 2 GB or more is suitable for high end systems with very high end video cards, especially when using multiple monitors, Crossfire or SLi, and very high resolutions with AA cranked to the max, in that situation the amount of video ram is important, but not for the scenario you will be using to game...1 GB is still plenty for your intended usage, cheers! :)
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Re: [HELP] Upgrading from HD4850

Postby Sauron_Daz » Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:06 am

sevendp wrote:thanks for the info bro!
i think u r sleeping now ... so fast to reply ...
LOL :P


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Re: [HELP] Upgrading from HD4850

Postby Sauron_Daz » Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:10 am

If you are using a 64 bit OS, maybe consider to upgrade memory to 8 GB.
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Re: [HELP] Upgrading from HD4850

Postby Hammer_Time » Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:36 am

Sauron_Daz wrote:
sevendp wrote:thanks for the info bro!
i think u r sleeping now ... so fast to reply ...
LOL :P


We never sleep.


:lol: Not when there is modding to do!! :twisted: :D
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Re: [HELP] Upgrading from HD4850

Postby Sauron_Daz » Fri Mar 15, 2013 4:46 am

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Re: [HELP] Upgrading from HD4850

Postby DIREWOLF75 » Fri Mar 15, 2013 7:04 am

1. which one is good for the money HD7770 or GTX 650TI ?

That depends on how high you want to go on the pricetag. I don´t know where you´re at, but here the 7770 is a good bit cheaper(about $40+).

So basically, if the card prices are similar, the 650 is clearly the better buy unless the other has some special feature or something (like better cooling or even fanless etc(i know for example Gigabyte has a fanless version of the 7770, almost identical to my fanless 6770, totally superior cooling, but the huge heatsink ups the price noticeably)), otherwise you will simply have to choose if you want to pay more and get a bit better performance or not.

2. will my processor bottleneck it ?

Depends on game of course, but overall shouldn´t be a big problem. The original FSB on that cpu is lowend and probably has some more effect though. If your OC is based on FSB upping, that probably helps more than the OC on the cpu.

3. i still can use my old PSU or i must upgrade it ?

Probably... The 650ti has the same wattage as the 4850 so it should work unless its picky about something.
My 6770(slightly less wattage than 4850 and 650ti)/E8400 system runs on a 450W and never seen any issues, but i´ve never heard of Acbel so i don´t know what level of quality your PSU is.
Also, never forget that PSUs invariably do degrade over time, unless your PSU is lowend(or older than the rest of your system by years) however you should have plenty enough margin to run it as it is(and a bit more as well).

If you´re ok with the lower performance of the 7770, it runs at almost 30%(31W) less wattage(650ti is at 110W).

HD7850 looks good in 165US$ but in my country is 200US$++

Pity, totally superior card at only 20W more power use.

*****
Don't waste money on 2 GB version of GTX 650 Ti, it is a waste of your money and you will never use given your current monitor's max resolution... 2 GB is a marketing trick to sucker people to spend more money than they need to...

Yeah, no need to bother.
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Re: [HELP] Upgrading from HD4850

Postby Hammer_Time » Fri Mar 15, 2013 4:32 pm

Agree with Dire's comments above.

The HD 7850 is a bit stronger card ( overall ) than the GTX 650 Ti, but it costs way too much in your neck of the woods right now...

I think you willl be quite pleased with the GTX 650 Ti, all things considered. :scout:

3DMark11 score:

http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/2012 ... ,2932.html

Gigabyte GeForce GTX 650 Ti OC Windforce 2X 1 GB
GTX 650 Ti 1 GB GDDR5 1032 MHz

4880 Marks!! Not too shabby a score at all!! :D ( gpu core at 1032 Mhz )

The average HD 7850 score is just over 5000 Marks ( avg 5050 Marks ), just a hair faster...I doubt you would notice the difference ( of course the 7850 can overclock easily but you can nearly match its stock speed performance with a 650 Ti ).

The GTX 650 Ti even has a bit higher score than GTX 560 Ti ( Asus card running only 830 Mhz core ), but I can easily run my card at 900 Mhz ( stock is 850 Mhz ) and there it matches the 650 Ti score in this particular synthetic benchmark. :D

GTX 650 Ti is a very good card for the $140 to $150 price range.

If your budget was a bit higher than $150 then I would recommend this since you live in the USA and can order from newegg.com online ( right? ) :

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6814161426

HIS H785F1G2M Radeon HD 7850 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card

Free Bioshock&Tomb Raider game coupon w/ purchase, limited offer

$164.99
$4.99 Shipping
(restrictions apply)


So $170 shipped!! ( plus tax of course )... but you get latest Tomb Raider and Bioshock Infinite game coupons for free!! ( some $120 or so worth of free games ) with that HIS card... sweet deal...

Sorry to tempt you with that... but don't worry , the GTX 650 Ti should do just fine for you , honest!! :)
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Re: [HELP] Upgrading from HD4850

Postby Hammer_Time » Fri Mar 15, 2013 4:34 pm

Sauron_Daz wrote:Image


:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: [HELP] Upgrading from HD4850

Postby DIREWOLF75 » Fri Mar 15, 2013 6:29 pm

The HD 7850 is a bit stronger card ( overall ) than the GTX 650 Ti, but it costs way too much in your neck of the woods right now...

Yeah, here the 7850 isnt even 200SEK more than the 650ti, even at a direct currency conversion that´s just $30. And a more realistic conversion would make it more like <$20.

The average HD 7850 score is just over 5000 Marks ( avg 5050 Marks ), just a hair faster...I doubt you would notice the difference ( of course the 7850 can overclock easily but you can nearly match its stock speed performance with a 650 Ti ).

The only thing the 650ti can compete in is with having the same number of geometry shaders, with the core running at slightly higher clock.
However, the BIG difference is when you look at the raw performance numbers:
GFLOPS, 1761 vs 1420.
27/55/153 vs 15/59/86, in pixel fillrate/texture fillrate/memory bandwidth.

256 vs 128 bit GRAM alone will make a big difference in some stuff.

GTX 650 Ti is a very good card for the $140 to $150 price range.

It is.

Sorry to tempt you with that...

Hah! As if you would be! :twisted:
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Re: [HELP] Upgrading from HD4850

Postby Hammer_Time » Fri Mar 15, 2013 7:23 pm

:twisted: :mrgreen:
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Re: [HELP] Upgrading from HD4850

Postby Sauron_Daz » Sat Mar 16, 2013 12:17 am

DIREWOLF75 wrote:
Sorry to tempt you with that...

Hah! As if you would be! :twisted:


:lol: :lol:
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Re: [HELP] Upgrading from HD4850

Postby Sauron_Daz » Sat Mar 16, 2013 12:19 am

Hammer_Time wrote:http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161426

HIS H785F1G2M Radeon HD 7850 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card

Free Bioshock&Tomb Raider game coupon w/ purchase, limited offer

$164.99
$4.99 Shipping
(restrictions apply)


So $170 shipped!! ( plus tax of course )... but you get latest Tomb Raider and Bioshock Infinite game coupons for free!! ( some $120 or so worth of free games ) with that HIS card... sweet deal...

Sorry to tempt you with that... but don't worry , the GTX 650 Ti should do just fine for you , honest!! :)


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Re: [HELP] Upgrading from HD4850

Postby Sauron_Daz » Sat Mar 16, 2013 12:19 am

DIREWOLF75 wrote:
Don't waste money on 2 GB version of GTX 650 Ti, it is a waste of your money and you will never use given your current monitor's max resolution... 2 GB is a marketing trick to sucker people to spend more money than they need to...

Yeah, no need to bother.


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Re: [HELP] Upgrading from HD4850

Postby clone » Sat Mar 16, 2013 7:17 am

I got my HD 7850 1gb for $150 a month ago.... well worth the coin, looks like they've gone up $10... bummer.

if you can find a base HD 7770 and overclock it to a premium one then I'm sure it'd be nice but personally I'm not a big fan of the Nvidia 650.... just not interested in it.
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Re: [HELP] Upgrading from HD4850

Postby Hammer_Time » Sat Mar 16, 2013 12:31 pm

Why not I wonder? 650 Ti is a bit faster than a 7770, tiny bit slower than a 7850, and priced right in between the two where it should be...

Tom's hw even recommends the 650Ti as Best Gaming Graphics Card for ~$140

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gam ... 107-3.html

"Nvidia's GeForce GTX 650 Ti is the best $150 card out there. It performs in the same league as the Radeon HD 6870 and GeForce GTX 560 at medium detail settings, but gives up some of its advantage when moderate anti-aliasing is applied due to a memory bandwidth bottleneck. Nevertheless, there is no competition in the price range able to touch it.
The GTX 650 Ti is slower than AMD's Radeon HD 7850 1 GB. However, we've seen that solution's price climb to around $175, giving Nvidia's more affordable option some space to make its value proposition.

Read our full review of Nvidia's GeForce GTX 650 Ti for more information on the card and its accompanying architecture.


Just use FXAA or no AA at all at higher resolutions like 1920x1080 where aliasing is not that noticeable because of the high resolution...that way the 128-bit memory bus does not affect fps all that much ( go easy on the AA setting ).

Of course the 7850 is a better card, but it is too expensive for sevendp unfortunately... 650 Ti is perfect for his budget range...

If his budget was only $120 then the 7770 would be the obvious and perfect choice for him, but he can spend up to $150 max so the faster 650 Ti makes sense for him... methinks... :wink:
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Re: [HELP] Upgrading from HD4850

Postby Sauron_Daz » Sat Mar 16, 2013 4:36 pm

Maybe for the same reason I won't look at NVidia cards..
I want AMD to stay.
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Re: [HELP] Upgrading from HD4850

Postby clone » Sat Mar 16, 2013 8:07 pm

Why not I wonder?
because I got my HD 7850 for about the same price and it's faster..... and I'm expecting something interesting to be gained when AMD rewrites the GCN memory manager in April.
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