Memory upgrade 12 GB to 24 GB tripple channel

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Memory upgrade 12 GB to 24 GB tripple channel

Postby rak » Mon Sep 24, 2012 1:53 am

Dear all, :)

We need to upgrade an existing 3D workstation from 12 GB RAM to 24 GB RAM.

Existing system specifications:
MSI X58 Pro SLI
i7 920
RAM: 12 GB DDR3 1333 AData tripple channel (6 x 2GB) 8-8-8-24

We found the following 2 kits at the local store where this computer is located:
Corsair Dominator 24GB(6x4GB) DDR3 1333MHz CL9 (CMP24GX3M6A1333C9) 174 EUR
G.Skill Ripjaws 24GB(6x4GB) DDR3 1333MHz CL9 (F3-10666CL9T2-24GBRL) 156 EUR

3D Simulation software on this system uses lots of memory(with settings on medium level .. :) ) and its needed - to avoid questions on the matter :))


I would go with Corsair - would it be as fast as the AData's ?
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Re: Memory upgrade 12 GB to 24 GB tripple channel

Postby Sauron_Daz » Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:43 am

I'd say the Adata is a bit faster (CL8 vs CL9).
Maybe go for 1600 MHz memory, downclock to 1333 MHz and decrease CL to 8, or maybe 7..
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Re: Memory upgrade 12 GB to 24 GB tripple channel

Postby Hammer_Time » Mon Sep 24, 2012 3:17 am

Warning!!

http://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?topic=133352.0

X58 Pro Won't See 4GB Memory Module

« on: 09-December-09, 09:09:11 »

I have the X58 Pro with i7 965, run Win 7 64 bits, most of my appl. are video editing and rendering. it worked fine with 2GB module (Corsair) but I just bought 6 pieces of 4GB DDR3 (Micron technology). Slapped in => no boot. have tried zapped with all latest BIOS up to 8.6 (8.7 is worst). I must remove at least 1 4GB module and replace a 2Gb then CPU will boot but bios report total number of RAM = total number of 2Gg module but ignores all the 4Gb pieces, so Window took this number as total system memory.. Funny part is: MSI overclock tool reads a 4Gb module and thought it's 2 Gb (meanwhile CPUID recognized these 4Gb module). My guess is max 24Gb memory for X58 pro just a marketing gimmick from MSI since they though no one will buy this board and put 24 Gb memory in it. Month ago I've tried mix with 8 and 2 Gb pieces, it won't boot at all.
I post here to see if anyone have an idea of what's going on with this main board and 4Gb module. For other just don't go out and pay a fortune for 4Gb then get very disappoint result.
-capt3450
« Last Edit: 09-December-09, 21:06:04 by capt3450 »


That post was from 2009 though and since then there is a new bios out ( 8.F ) that "improves memory compatibility" for your board :

http://ca.msi.com/product/mb/X58-Pro-E.html#/?div=BIOS

You have the "X58 Pro-E" model right ? Supports triple SLi or Crossfire as you mentioned in your post.

Install latest bios version from link above and you should be good to go hopefully.

Both the memory kits you listed have same 9-9-9-24 timings @ 1.5 volts.. I would go with the cheaper G.Skill kit, same performance but lower price than Corsair.

Of course it will be slightly slower than your Adata ram that has 8-8-8 timings, but having twice as much ram in your system will offset that greatly! You would not notice the performance difference unless benchmarking...be surprised if difference was more than 1 or 2% on average tbh...

BTW, here is the QVL of MSi tested and approved memory modules for your mobo:

http://ca.msi.com/file/test_report/TR10_1804.pdf

Neither of the kits you listed are approved for "24 GB" ( 6 x 4 GB sticks ) though, so be careful... not saying they won't work, but I would want to buy a kit that MSi has tested and verified for 6 channel use @ max 24 GB capacity.
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Re: Memory upgrade 12 GB to 24 GB tripple channel

Postby DIREWOLF75 » Mon Sep 24, 2012 3:40 am

would it be as fast as the AData's ?

No. Same clockspeed, slower CL and probably the other timings as well.

Your motherboard supports DDR3 1600, strongly suggest you aim to get that, preferably with 8-8-8-8 timings, if you cant get that for a decent price then 9 timings should be possible at least, with that you can test which is preferable, slower clock and faster timings or higher raw bandwidth.

I would go with Corsair

I probably would as well, but AFAIK, G.Skill is also good.
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Re: Memory upgrade 12 GB to 24 GB tripple channel

Postby Hammer_Time » Mon Sep 24, 2012 3:45 am

DIREWOLF75 wrote:
Your motherboard supports DDR3 1600,


Yes, but it HATES running all six slots at any speed higher than 1333 Mhz especially when you put 4 GB sticks in those slots ( prefers 1 or 2 GB modules ). If only using 3 slots or less, and using just 1 or 2 GB sticks ( not 4 GB sticks ) , then you can run them at 1600 Mhz or higher, more than 3 slots and you are limited to just 1333 Mhz!

Proof here:

http://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?topic=135048.0

Also if you look at MSi's QVL approved memory list I linked to above, you will notice that many 1 and 2 GB sticks are approved, and very few 4 GB sticks are... and especially if using more than 3 memory slots, then even fewer 4 GB sticks are approved, and none of them at speeds higher than 1333 Mhz!!! ( must use just 3 or less memory slots to OC the memory to 1600 Mhz or higher... )
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Re: Memory upgrade 12 GB to 24 GB tripple channel

Postby Stupify » Mon Sep 24, 2012 3:48 am

maybe pickup 3x8gb instead?
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Re: Memory upgrade 12 GB to 24 GB tripple channel

Postby Hammer_Time » Mon Sep 24, 2012 3:50 am

Nope, board does not support 8 GB modules, only 4 GB modules max... so 6 x 4 GB = 24 GB max capacity.

http://ca.msi.com/product/mb/X58-Pro-E. ... div=Detail

Main Memory

Supports six unbuffered DIMM of 1.5 Volt DDR3 800/1066/1333*/1600* (OC) DRAM, 24GB Max
- Supports 1Gb/ 2Gb/ 4Gb DRAM size

- Supports x8 / x16 data lines per DIMM
- Supports up to 3 channel mode
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Re: Memory upgrade 12 GB to 24 GB tripple channel

Postby Stupify » Mon Sep 24, 2012 4:31 am

the thing is i have seen boards support indicates X and actually can support >X. The reason why some products indicate they only support up to X is because that's all they had back then to test with. so it doesn't really mean that it doesn't support >X and is worth a try.
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Re: Memory upgrade 12 GB to 24 GB tripple channel

Postby Hammer_Time » Mon Sep 24, 2012 4:40 am

That is true occassionally, but seeing how much trouble the board has with running 4 GB sticks ( which it "officially" supports ) as opposed to 1 or 2 GB sticks ( which it loves ), especially using all 6 slots, I can *almost* guarantee there is no way he will get 8 GB capacity stick(s) working in that particular mobo...waste of time/money to try... because this board is so "picky" when it comes to ram...

This board came out in 2009 and 8 GB sticks were not as popular back then... not supported by this board...

While it is true the Asus Sabertooth X58 mobo CAN run 8 GB modules ( user has successfully installed 4 x 8 GB sticks = 32 GB total ) , even though that board is only "officially" rated for 4 GB modules ( max ), the MSi X58 boards are far pickier about ram!

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/ra ... oards.html

8gb sticks in X58 boards

I was wondering if x58 boards support 8gb sticks.

More specifically the asus sabertooth x58.


I want to get 3 8gb sticks to replace my 6 sticks of 4gbs because I have been getting random restarts and memory errors.

I've look around online and I haven't found anything confirming or denying whether or not the board supports it.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.


Well I was getting more crashes with the 6 x 4gb config and decided to test the waters with 8gb dimms and it works so far at least.

Gonna see how it does with some testing but so far it is showing 24gb at POST and in windows.

I bought a 32gb Corsair Vengeance 1600 kit in case anyone else feels like they want to give it a shot.

Corsair Vengeance Black 32GB 4X8GB DDR3-1600 CL10-10-10-27 1.5V Quad Channel Memory Kit - Corsair - CMZ32GX3M4X1600C10


Remember that is on an Asus X58 board, does not mean the same holds true for MSi X58 board... try at own risk!!

Remember what MSi themselves say about the max memory for this board:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6813130226

MSI X58 Pro-E LGA 1366 Intel X58 ATX Intel Motherboard

Up to 24GB of DDR3 1333 RAM can be installed with triple channel mode for increased performance.

SCALABLE DDR3 MEMORY

Six 240-pin DIMM sockets support up to 24GB of unbuffered (UDIMM) DDR3 memory at speeds of 800, 1066 and 1333MHz, ensuring ample capacity for any application.
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Re: Memory upgrade 12 GB to 24 GB tripple channel

Postby Sauron_Daz » Mon Sep 24, 2012 5:04 am

DIREWOLF75 wrote:I probably would as well, but AFAIK, G.Skill is also good.


And cheaper..
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Re: Memory upgrade 12 GB to 24 GB tripple channel

Postby Sauron_Daz » Mon Sep 24, 2012 5:06 am

Stupify wrote:the thing is i have seen boards support indicates X and actually can support >X. The reason why some products indicate they only support up to X is because that's all they had back then to test with. so it doesn't really mean that it doesn't support >X and is worth a try.


Rarely it doesn't.
And when the mobo IS picky about the brand or type of modules, just send them back..
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Re: Memory upgrade 12 GB to 24 GB tripple channel

Postby Sauron_Daz » Mon Sep 24, 2012 5:07 am

Hammer_Time wrote:That is true occassionally, but seeing how much trouble the board has with running 4 GB sticks ( which it "officially" supports ) as opposed to 1 or 2 GB sticks ( which it loves ), especially using all 6 slots, I can *almost* guarantee there is no way he will get 8 GB capacity stick(s) working in that particular mobo...waste of time/money to try... because this board is so "picky" when it comes to ram...

This board came out in 2009 and 8 GB sticks were not as popular back then... not supported by this board...

While it is true the Asus Sabertooth X58 mobo CAN run 8 GB modules ( user has successfully installed 4 x 8 GB sticks = 32 GB total ) , even though that board is only "officially" rated for 4 GB modules ( max ), the MSi X58 boards are far pickier about ram!

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/ra ... oards.html

8gb sticks in X58 boards

I was wondering if x58 boards support 8gb sticks.

More specifically the asus sabertooth x58.


I want to get 3 8gb sticks to replace my 6 sticks of 4gbs because I have been getting random restarts and memory errors.

I've look around online and I haven't found anything confirming or denying whether or not the board supports it.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.


Well I was getting more crashes with the 6 x 4gb config and decided to test the waters with 8gb dimms and it works so far at least.

Gonna see how it does with some testing but so far it is showing 24gb at POST and in windows.

I bought a 32gb Corsair Vengeance 1600 kit in case anyone else feels like they want to give it a shot.

Corsair Vengeance Black 32GB 4X8GB DDR3-1600 CL10-10-10-27 1.5V Quad Channel Memory Kit - Corsair - CMZ32GX3M4X1600C10


Remember that is on an Asus X58 board, does not mean the same holds true for MSi X58 board... try at own risk!!

Remember what MSi themselves say about the max memory for this board:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6813130226

MSI X58 Pro-E LGA 1366 Intel X58 ATX Intel Motherboard

Up to 24GB of DDR3 1333 RAM can be installed with triple channel mode for increased performance.

SCALABLE DDR3 MEMORY

Six 240-pin DIMM sockets support up to 24GB of unbuffered (UDIMM) DDR3 memory at speeds of 800, 1066 and 1333MHz, ensuring ample capacity for any application.



Maybe he can try and if it doesn't work RMA the memory modules..
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Re: Memory upgrade 12 GB to 24 GB tripple channel

Postby rak » Mon Sep 24, 2012 5:19 am

Thanks guys, very helpful as always! :)

I will check the BIOS.

1600 seems a little bit dangerous.

With the BIOS upgraded any of those 2 kits should work I guess ?
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Re: Memory upgrade 12 GB to 24 GB tripple channel

Postby Sauron_Daz » Mon Sep 24, 2012 6:14 am

Putting in 1600 MHz memory won't be dangerous: if you don't set it to that speed in BIOS, the RAM will just run at 1333 speeds. But you can lower CL then.
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Re: Memory upgrade 12 GB to 24 GB tripple channel

Postby Hammer_Time » Mon Sep 24, 2012 7:27 am

rak wrote:Thanks guys, very helpful as always! :)

I will check the BIOS.

1600 seems a little bit dangerous.

With the BIOS upgraded any of those 2 kits should work I guess ?


I would think they should work , especially with latest BIOS version installed, but no way to know for 100% till you plug em in and try them!

Just make sure you can exchange the ram for something else in case it does not work ...
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Re: Memory upgrade 12 GB to 24 GB tripple channel

Postby rak » Mon Sep 24, 2012 10:29 pm

So, if 1600 Mhz modules will run in the worst case at 1333 then I would say its safe.

1333 Mhz
G.Skill Ripjaws 24GB (6x4GB) DDR3 1333MHz CL9 156 EUR
Corsair Dominator 24GB (6x4GB) DDR3 1333MHz CL9 174 EUR

1600 Mhz
Corsair Vengeance 24GB (6x4GB) DDR3 1600MHz CL9 156 EUR
Corsair Dominator 24GB (6x4GB) DDR3 1600MHz CL9 222 EUR
G.Skill Ripjaws 24GB (6x4GB) DDR3 1600MHz CL9 155 EUR
Kingston HX Genesis 24GB (6x4GB) DDR3 1600MHz CL9 129 EUR
Kingston HX T1 24GB (6x4GB) DDR3 1600MHz CL9 149 EUR

Which one of these do you recommend (quality weights over price) ?

We will purchase one of the 1600 Mhz modules then.

The problem is that this system is remote from me: is it hard to OC that MSI BIOS?
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Re: Memory upgrade 12 GB to 24 GB tripple channel

Postby Sauron_Daz » Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:24 am

There is some kind of overclocking guide here but I wouldn't call that an easy guide..
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Re: Memory upgrade 12 GB to 24 GB tripple channel

Postby DIREWOLF75 » Tue Sep 25, 2012 3:26 am

Which one of these do you recommend (quality weights over price) ?

Simply go with the most expensive modules then, I would call the Corsair Dominator series the best ones.
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Re: Memory upgrade 12 GB to 24 GB tripple channel

Postby rak » Tue Sep 25, 2012 3:31 am

Sauron_Daz I have some good news: changing the Memory Ratio from Auto to level 5: in their menu corresponding to 1333
did the trick.

1333 Mhz
http://i50.tinypic.com/10r7lkx.png

1066: default until today
http://i46.tinypic.com/20f9fg4.png

The Adata's are 1333 Mhz memory but they were running at 1066 until now.

This system is remote to me and I did not check until now.

I checked the results in Aida64 and I have the following:
12 GB 1066
Triple DDR3-1066 8-8-8-19 CR2 13383 MB/s
Triple DDR3-1066 8-8-8-19 CR2 12353 MB/s
Triple DDR3-1066 8-8-8-19 CR2 14771 MB/s
Triple DDR3-1066 8-8-8-19 CR2 69.9 ns

12 GB 1333
Triple DDR3-1333 8-8-8-19 CR2 15259 MB/s
Triple DDR3-1333 8-8-8-19 CR2 14823 MB/s
Triple DDR3-1333 8-8-8-19 CR2 15853 MB/s
Triple DDR3-1333 8-8-8-19 CR2 62.0 ns

Impressive results just by changing from 1066(MB default) to 1333 (Memory default).

The next level is 6 corresponding to 1600 and maximum officially supported.
The levels go up to 2133.

This means that if we buy 1600 Mhz memory they should run stable just by modifying the level ?

We will put them up to some memtest and let you know the stability.

We decided to try 1600 Mhz memories and just modify the ration: for 150 EUR in the worst case they would run at 1066.

As a final go I need your valuable expert advice :)
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Re: Memory upgrade 12 GB to 24 GB tripple channel

Postby Sauron_Daz » Tue Sep 25, 2012 4:09 am

I have seen that on other mobo's as well: leaving memory on 'auto' in BIOS often makes the memory run slower that its rated speed. Don't know why that is..

I'd say get that 1600 MHz memory and set it in BIOS to run it at 1600 MHz.
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