Canadians getting screwed hard by Telecoms

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Canadians getting screwed hard by Telecoms

Postby Hammer_Time » Wed Oct 26, 2011 9:44 am

**What will Big Telecom price gouging cost YOU?**

OpenMedia.ca has just released a thoroughly researched 150-page report that answers just that, and makes an indisputable case against closed, costly communications. Find it at http://openmedia.ca/plan

What if Canadians payed twice as much for Internet as our global counterparts? Well, we're nearly there. And it won’t be long before this becomes a reality if we leave our digital future in the hands of Big Telecom companies.


Arm yourself with information:

- Big phone and cable companies have wrongly claimed that online traffic has increased dramatically in recent years, but our research shows that the opposite is happening.
- These same companies boast about their investment in digital infrastructure, but we discovered that investment is increasingly out of step with revenues, and the infrastructure investments of their global counterparts.
It turns out that charging extra fees for "excessive" Internet use is gouging, pure and simple, and it's holding us back.


**Canada Needs a Plan**

Titled Casting an Open Net: A leading-edge approach to Canada's Digital Future, our report lays out a clear and concise plan to lead Canadians to a gouge-free, open, and affordable Internet.
We timed this report launch to coincide with the impending new parliament. Canadians have a unique opportunity to influence the next four years of digital policy, today.
Set the record straight. Send a copy of the report to your MP now, at http://openmedia.ca/plan


http://openmedia.ca/plan/action-plan

As this report demonstrates, ensuring Canada has an open Internet is essential for our economy, culture, and global competitiveness. The goal of digital policy should be to bring fast, affordable and ubiquitous Internet service to all Canadians. Openness should be the guiding principle and cornerstone of all digital policy.

Digital policy must also balance the needs of large urban cities, smaller cities, rural towns, and remote communities. Canadian-made digital policy should recognize regional diversity and employ a variety of tactics to bring affordable Internet to all Canadians. To have a future-oriented Internet, Canada must address both the need to develop the core terrestrial network and complement that network with spectrum management that enables new opportunities for wireless access.

The following recommendations were derived from in-person consultations with hundreds of Canadians in several cities, an online consultation, and input from academic experts. As detailed in “The Open Internet: International Comparisons,” the third section of this report, many of the policy recommendations below have been demonstrated to work in countries that have successfully restructured their telecommunication markets after facing similar challenges to those faced in Canada.

Access

Bring fast Internet access to all Canadians and stimulate the economy
The federal government should invest 2.2 billion (from spectrum auction proceeds) in 21st century Internet infrastructure-investment decisions should be guided by public interest criteria and made in consultation with citizens and, where appropriate, local governments.
Projects should only be funded if they are open access networks; subsidized providers must guarantee minimum levels of service in the subsidized markets
Provide incentives for construction to include fibre as a component of any construction process.
Invest in city-wide open wireless Internet access initiatives
Support the installation and extension of fibre to public institutions such as schools, libraries, community centres, hospitals, and public housing. Encourage CANARIE to allow these institutions to connect to its network.

Choice

Enable ISP autonomy, competition and choice
Functional separation should be adopted to enable ISP competition and choice.
Users and service providers should be free to develop applications and operate any services without the prior approval of carriers, provided they do not interfere unduly with network operations or violate the neutrality of the network.

Diversity

Spectrum allocation in the public interest
Reserve from auction a band of no less than 2 contiguous 5 MHz in the 700 MHz band for Canadian innovation and local community services. (example: City of Fredericton’s Wifi)
Make spectrum available to lease rather than to own.
Impose a use-it-or-lose-it clause that requires the successful bidder to launch the planned service within three years, or give up the spectrum.
Ensure that a portion of the spectrum available after full digitization of TV signals is available for unlicensed use.
Set aside one-quarter of the remaining spectrum in the band for auction to carriers with less than 2% of market share in order to enable the development of more carriers and more consumer choice.

Innovation

Canada needs objective, reliable, open and understandable ISP data to use, plan and invest in new applications.
Mandate regular ISP openness audits, measuring:
Traffic management practices
Average speeds (Ofcom in the UK and the FCC in the US do this in various ways)
Billing practices as set against costs (there have been stories of overbilling/mis-measuring usage by ISPs etc.).

Congestion

Regional broadband speed levels (See: http://broadbandmap.gov )
The audits should be applied to both wired and wireless access to the Internet.
Parliament should amend the CRTC Act to permit the CRTC to levy administrative monetary penalties (AMPs) that can be used to enforce transparency requirements and regulations.
The objective of the audits is to ensure users are able to freely decide which applications they run on their Internet connection, no matter which device or pricing tier they choose.

Openness

Open CRTC: The best guarantee of an open Internet is a policy-making process that is open, citizen-centered, and public-interest oriented.
The government should direct the CRTC to ensure the creation of open, accessible and neutral networks and maximize user preference.
In the interests of accountability and transparency, the government should show how all new appointments ranked in the overall scorecard based on the must-have and should-have criteria listed in the job postings. The criteria should include significant experience in the public interest or consumer advocacy community.
The government should include broader stakeholder and citizen participation in the appointment process of CRTC commissioners.
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Re: Canadians getting screwed hard by Telecoms

Postby Stupify » Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:38 am

It is expected given the Canadian population, the density and the huge area that the Telecoms need to cover with appropriate infrastructure.
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Re: Canadians getting screwed hard by Telecoms

Postby DIREWOLF75 » Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:13 pm

Stupify wrote:It is expected given the Canadian population, the density and the huge area that the Telecoms need to cover with appropriate infrastructure.

That´s just partially true. Canada has huge areas to cover in theory sure, but Canada´s degree of urbanisation isn´t too far from that of Sweden.
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Re: Canadians getting screwed hard by Telecoms

Postby Hammer_Time » Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:22 pm

That is true, we can't all be dazzling suburbanites here in Canaduh you know :wink: :mrgreen: , everyone who lives outside of Vancouver and GTA in our great white north looks like this:

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Back on topic:

Actual Canadian HiSpeed internet distribution in 2009 :

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Population distribution as of July 1, 2010 by census division (CD), Canada

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Re: Canadians getting screwed hard by Telecoms

Postby clone » Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:03 pm

That´s just partially true. Canada has huge areas to cover in theory sure, but Canada´s degree of urbanisation isn´t too far from that of Sweden.
that's only partially comparable, one of the conditions of the continued monopoly is eventual high speed access to all areas.

that said a lot of "independent" organisations are nothing of the kind and financed by those who want access, many of the nature groups in Canada are financed by U.S. donors who are more interested in gaining access or slowing growth so that they can expand.

always look at who is screaming to see what they are really screaming about.
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Re: Canadians getting screwed hard by Telecoms

Postby Fuzz » Thu Oct 27, 2011 4:42 am

I like how those f*#k3rs up my bill $5-$10 per year, every 6 moths or so. No reason for it, they just do it. And then announce "record profits" again.
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Re: Canadians getting screwed hard by Telecoms

Postby clone » Thu Oct 27, 2011 7:58 am

I like how when oil was $100 a barrel I was paying $.98 per liter and now I'm paying $1.20 for a liter with oil at $86 with BP announcing 5 billion in profits.
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Re: Canadians getting screwed hard by Telecoms

Postby Fuzz » Thu Oct 27, 2011 8:02 am

...and our dollar is worth more, so it should be even cheaper for us. But everyone has "accepted" the new higher than $1/L prices, so they just stick with it.
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Re: Canadians getting screwed hard by Telecoms

Postby DIREWOLF75 » Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:12 am

Fuzz wrote:...and our dollar is worth more, so it should be even cheaper for us. But everyone has "accepted" the new higher than $1/L prices, so they just stick with it.

Petrol price here, around 14-15SEK. Current dollar exchange rate, just under 7SEK. :twisted:
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Re: Canadians getting screwed hard by Telecoms

Postby Fuzz » Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:18 am

Taxes probably have something to do with that . . .We also have the world's second largest petroleum reserves. Instead of ensuring reasonable prices for Canadians, they ensure massive profits for multinationals.
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Re: Canadians getting screwed hard by Telecoms

Postby Sauron_Daz » Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:10 pm

Here a stunning 1.68 Euro per liter.
This equals to some US$ 2.31 :x
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Re: Canadians getting screwed hard by Telecoms

Postby Hammer_Time » Wed Nov 16, 2011 9:23 am

Well, we won this round, but the war is not over yet:

Just received this email from openmedia.ca :

This is what we’ve been waiting for. Together we’ve stopped Big Telecom’s plan to impose usage-based billing (Internet metering) on all Canadians. Big phone and cable companies tried to rig the market but they were caught red-handed.

A year ago the CRTC decided that big telecom giants could force their small competitors to adopt metered billing. This would have killed Big Telecom’s independent competitors, and it would have meant a more expensive and controlled Internet for all Canadians. It was this outrageous move that led OpenMedia.ca to launch the now half-a-million strong Stop The Meter petition that forced the CRTC to reconsider their plan.

Yesterday, finally, the CRTC pulled back from its mandatory metered billing decision. This decision won’t stop all big telecom metering, but it could provide a much needed unlimited, independent option for many Canadians. It is truly rare for people to outmaneuver Big Telecom lobbyists, but together, we did it. Thank you for playing a crucial part in safeguarding the affordable Internet.


We changed the foundation of Internet billing in Canada—that’s a game changer—but we’re concerned that uncompetitive pricing may be buried in the pages of the policy that the CRTC released yesterday. We’ll study the details of this decision closely in the coming days and, with your help, take whatever action is necessary to push for fair pricing.

What’s next?

We held the line on Internet affordability and prevented Big Telecom from taking complete control, but they still dominate about 94% of the Internet service market. This is why Canada is still falling behind the rest of the world on speed, pricing, and (as we all know) customer service.
Big Telecom makes record profits while Canadians are overcharged and disrespected. Those profits are then used to lobby for more control and price-gouging. Now more than ever we need to break this cycle.
The only thing Big Telecom companies understand is their bottom line, so let’s hit them where it hurts. Let’s get as many Canadians as possible to switch to an independent provider.


Here’s what you can do now:

We know it’s not possible for everyone to switch to an independent provider right now, but let’s all please pledge to use an independent provider when it is possible.
If possible, switch to an independent provider like Teksavvy, Distributel, or Acanac who have supported our public engagement campaign, or other indie ISPs that you can find through the “Make the Switch” resource page we started here: http://openmedia.ca/switch

Here’s the plan:
Get the CRTC to allow indie ISPs to offer an unmetered Internet.
A wave of Canadians cancel their service with Big Telecom, and subscribe to an independent competitor—delivering a swift financial cannon shot directly at Big Telecom’s lobbying budget.
Businesses, civil society groups, and people across Canada work with policy-makers to fix our broken telecom system once and for all.
By pledging to make the switch, you’ll send a clear message to policy-makers that all Canadians want independent choices for Internet service.
We’ll let Prime Minister Harper and Industry Minister Paradis know how many Canadians have made this pledge.
As an active member of the pro-Internet community, your participation is key.
For our digital future,
Steve, Lindsey, and the OpenMedia.ca Team
P.S. The CRTC’s decision yesterday is likely to meet an aggressive reaction from Big Telecom. Let’s push forward for Internet openness and affordability now, while they’re still reeling from our success. Let’s get moving! Pledge to switch today.
Support OpenMedia.ca
OpenMedia.ca is a non-profit organization that relies on donations from people like you to operate. Our small but dedicated team ensures even the smallest contributions go a long way to make your voice heard. Please donate today.


Many of us have no choice but to go with the "Big Three" ( Rogers, Shaw, Bell ) for internet service as independent ISP's are either not available in our area or are not competitive in terms of offering the higher-tier ( 25 to 100 Mbps ) service that the Big Three offer.

In terms of Wireless ( cell phone ) providers, the "Big Three" are of course Rogers/Shaw, Bell , Telus :

http://www.techvibes.com/blog/big-three ... 2011-04-26

Big Three still responsible for 95% of Canadian wireless subscribers
Posted by Rob Lewis on Tue, April 26, 2011 3:02 PM · Filed under Calgary and 11 other categories · 1 Comment
Digital Home reported yesterday that the number of wireless telephone subscribers in Canada increased by 7.4% during 2010. According to the Canadian Wireless Telecommunications Association (CWTA) there were 24,567,947 wireless subscribers in this country at the end of 2010, up from 22,876,547 at the end of 2009.
The Big Three accounted for 94.4% of all subscribers:
Rogers - 8.98 million subscribers
Bell Mobility - 7.24 million subscribers
Telus - 6.97 million subscribers.
The remaining subscribers are with:
Sasktel Mobility - 568,904
MTS Mobility - 483,754
Wind Mobile - 232,641
Videotron - 92,600
Public Mobile - not available
Mobilicity - not available
The carrier with the biggest subscriber gains 2010 was Rogers which added 466,000 new subscribers, followed by Telus with 447,000 new subs and Bell with 408,746 new customers.


We did make the CRTC and big telecoms sit up and take notice, but you can be sure they will try again and this war is from over. Thanks to all who signed the petition, you rock! 8)
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Re: Canadians getting screwed hard by Telecoms

Postby Sauron_Daz » Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:56 pm

Similar things have been tried here as well.
So far without success fortunatly.
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Re: Canadians getting screwed hard by Telecoms

Postby clone » Wed Nov 16, 2011 3:41 pm

the whole idea was so stupid, ppl & businesses had a right to be up in arms, total bullshit that they are trying not just to commodify an inexpensive essential ingredient for global competition but to actually restrict it like it's a limited resource..... privatization ='s progress, BAH!!!!

to hell with them all, despicable greedy bastards.
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Re: Canadians getting screwed hard by Telecoms

Postby Stupify » Wed Nov 16, 2011 8:06 pm

clone, say that when you own a business and have to answer to the shareholders.

the issue with unlimited bandwidth is that it eats away a huge bulk of the revenue from other sectors - namely the cable tv and phone. until these big companies can somehow find a niche where the bandwidth doesn't affect their current revenue from that sector, throttling or limiting bandwidth is the only sure way to ensure the revenue stays steady and the shareholders happy. Any company currently in tv business see the unlimited bandwidth as a major risk as people will switch over to streaming online. So this approach is applied/taken by these "evil" companies. I bet this will continue until they have recovered most of their investments and started to dismantle their tv business enough to not affect negatively to their profits while accepting the fact that revenue will be gone.
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Re: Canadians getting screwed hard by Telecoms

Postby Hammer_Time » Thu Nov 17, 2011 2:35 am

My main problem with bandwidth caps is not the idea of them, it is how LOW Rogers and Bell set them.

Example: Rogers Xtreme hispeed cable internet service plan for $60/mo only gives you a measly 100 GB monthly cap ( that includes UPLOADS as well as DOWNLOADS btw, further decreasing your "actual download" monthly cap ), then charges you $1.50 per GB for every GB you go over that up to a maximum overusage fee of $50 per month.

http://www.rogers.com/web/link/hispeedB ... faultPlans

Note that the price listed is 50% off for the First 6 months for new subscribers only!! The actual rate is $60/mo for Xtreme plan with 100 GB monthly cap... ( plus modem rental fee of course )

Rogers ( and Bell and the rest of Cdn telecoms ) went from "truly unlimited" many years ago, to a 250 GB monthly cap over 2-3 years ago, then lately they shrunk them down to next to nothing ( 80 GB cap a few months ago, now back up VERY RECENTLY to 100 GB cap for their middle of road plan is ludicrous!!! Windows updates alone chew up a good chunk these days...argh... ) which is nothing more than PURE MONOPOLIZATION of the market and price-gouging and corporate greed. The studies and research have proven this to be true. The US and Canada ( USA junior ) are killing us with their greed...

Even Rogers very top of the line $100/mo Super Duper Xtreme 50 Mbps plan only gives you a measly 250 GB monthly download cap ( uploads + downloads of course )... I would expect a lot more capacity for paying $100/mo to them!! :shock: :incoming: ( Years ago their top of the line plan was only $50/mo for 11 Mbps with TRUE unlimited downloading for comparison... )

Now the bastages have come out recently with this to try and stem the uproar:

http://www.keepingpace.ca/faq.html#18

What are the monthly usage allowances for my Rogers Hi-Speed Internet service?

Each Rogers Hi-Speed Internet service offers a generous monthly usage allowance.


Click here to view our Internet services and associated usage allowance.

Note for Lite customers: If you signed up for Lite before July 21st, 2010, your usage allowance remains at 25GB. Additionally, if you are a Lite customer living in the Atlantic, your usage allowance remains at 25GB. Note for Extreme customers: If you signed up for Extreme before July 21st, 2010, your usage allowance remains at 95GB. Additionally, if you are an Extreme customer living in the Atlantic, your usage allowance remains at 95GB.

Will I be charged if I go beyond my monthly usage allowance?

Yes. If you exceed your monthly usage allowance, you will be charged as follows:
Ultra Lite – $5.00/GB to a maximum of $50.00
Lite – $4.00/GB to a maximum of $50.00 *
Express – $2.00/GB to a maximum of $50.00
Extreme – $1.50/GB to a maximum of $50.00
Extreme Plus – $1.25/GB to a maximum of $50.00
Ultimate – $0.50/GB to a maximum of $50.00


?*Note for Lite customers: If you signed up for Lite before July 21st, 2010, your additional usage charges remains at $2.50/GB. Additionally, if you are a Lite customer living in the Atlantic, your additional usage charges remains at $2.50/GB


Can I purchase more usage to increase my monthly usage allowance?

We offer five tiers of service, and each comes with a different usage allowance. The best way to increase your monthly usage allowance is to select the level of service that best meets your needs. You can also choose to pay for additional usage each month on a per-gigabyte basis.


They call this GOUGE "Usage Assurance" LMAO!!! :roll: :lol:

http://expressua.upgrademyinternet.ca/

$5/month for an extra 20GB/month Add an extra 20 GB per month to your Hi-Speed Internet package

1. Usage allowance applies on a monthly basis and varies by tier of service. Charges may apply for additional usage beyond the monthly usage allowance associated with your Internet package. For details, visit rogers.com/keepingpace.
2. Speeds may vary with internet traffic, server, gateway/router, computer (quality, location in the home, software and applications installed), home wiring, home network or other factors. Also see the Acceptable Use Policy at rogers.com/terms. Modem set-up: the system is configured to maximum modem capabilities within Rogers own network.
3. Taxes apply.
™Trademarks of or used under license from Rogers Communications Inc. or an affiliate. © 2010 Rogers Communications Inc.


So that breaks down to paying $1 for every 4 GB overusage, or only $0.25 per GB overusage, which is more reasonable. It is still a GOUGE though!!

So you see, they have you screwed either way...

So while I don't expect "free unlimited downloading" anymore these days, to go from that model that we were all used to for years and years in the past to the current pathetic puny miniscule amount of current monthly download caps is very painful to swallow financially. :evil: :fist:

Yes , Rogers has slightly improved their download caps amounts from just 2 months ago, but it still sucks...
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Re: Canadians getting screwed hard by Telecoms

Postby Stupify » Thu Nov 17, 2011 3:54 am

just playing the devil's advocate here though and i feel my explanation of why the gouging probably represents the reality.

i too feel the pain of the gouging having 2 heavy users and 1 itching to be a heavy user in house i have almost every month went over the 60gb cap.
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Re: Canadians getting screwed hard by Telecoms

Postby Hammer_Time » Thu Nov 17, 2011 4:56 am

Yep, agreed! The only thing I am thankful for is the availability of hispeed internet where I live, I can't imagine living in some rural area on dialup these days... man that would suck... :P Everything is relative though...
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Re: Canadians getting screwed hard by Telecoms

Postby DIREWOLF75 » Thu Nov 17, 2011 5:28 am

Stupify wrote:clone, say that when you own a business and have to answer to the shareholders.

the issue with unlimited bandwidth is that it eats away a huge bulk of the revenue from other sectors - namely the cable tv and phone. until these big companies can somehow find a niche where the bandwidth doesn't affect their current revenue from that sector, throttling or limiting bandwidth is the only sure way to ensure the revenue stays steady and the shareholders happy. Any company currently in tv business see the unlimited bandwidth as a major risk as people will switch over to streaming online. So this approach is applied/taken by these "evil" companies. I bet this will continue until they have recovered most of their investments and started to dismantle their tv business enough to not affect negatively to their profits while accepting the fact that revenue will be gone.


If so, then why isn´t that a problem here?
And why are uploads part of the caps if what you say is true?

Last i looked, tv through ISP took something like 1-3Mb/s, while phone usage is barely visible.
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Re: Canadians getting screwed hard by Telecoms

Postby Stupify » Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:12 am

DIREWOLF75 wrote:
Stupify wrote:clone, say that when you own a business and have to answer to the shareholders.

the issue with unlimited bandwidth is that it eats away a huge bulk of the revenue from other sectors - namely the cable tv and phone. until these big companies can somehow find a niche where the bandwidth doesn't affect their current revenue from that sector, throttling or limiting bandwidth is the only sure way to ensure the revenue stays steady and the shareholders happy. Any company currently in tv business see the unlimited bandwidth as a major risk as people will switch over to streaming online. So this approach is applied/taken by these "evil" companies. I bet this will continue until they have recovered most of their investments and started to dismantle their tv business enough to not affect negatively to their profits while accepting the fact that revenue will be gone.


If so, then why isn´t that a problem here?
And why are uploads part of the caps if what you say is true?

Last i looked, tv through ISP took something like 1-3Mb/s, while phone usage is barely visible.


Most likely because the return on investment is already covered in your country whereas it is not here and also maybe the fact that the government here didn't offer up as much grants to have the infrastructure setup as your governments did.

As for upload caps, probably because the ISPs are being more forced the RIAA bullshit down their throats by the bought-out politicians.

Politics/Government plays a major role in this sector as well thus one cannot blame everything on the ISPs trying to gouge the people.
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